Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. This is the ninth meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

This morning we have our orders of the day. We're delighted to welcome back the minister for consideration of supplementary estimates C. Members will know that we have one hour set aside for consideration of the supplementary estimates and then we will be proceeding to other business at 10 o'clock.

Minister, we're glad to have you back, and we'll proceed with your comments. It's normally ten minutes, but we have the hour, so we'll allow you to take your time and then we'll go to questions from members after that.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank you and your colleagues for inviting me to appear again before this committee.

It's good to be back. I'm not sure, but if we keep up at this rate we're going to set a record for being collegial with one another, and this is good. It's good to be back.

A few days ago I was here and I did have the opportunity to discuss Bill C-5, an act to amend the Indian Oil and Gas Act. As I said at that meeting, Bill C-5 has been a long time coming. When the bill is adopted, and hopefully that will be soon, the 130 first nation communities in our country with petroleum production or the potential for petroleum production on their lands will finally be able to manage their oil and gas resources using the most modern regulatory audit and oversight tools available. And equipped with these valuable tools, first nation communities will be ideally positioned to fully realize their economic potential--the potential of their own resources, really--and in their own way and on their own terms.

So Bill C-5 is an important and long overdue piece of business, but it's not the only item, of course, on our collective agenda. As you and committee members well know, several weeks ago we discussed supplementary estimates B of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development for the fiscal year that ends March 31, 2009. That's just three weeks away.

I will tell you that I did enjoy that meeting for three reasons. First, it enabled me to share with you my thoughts on our recent achievements, our priorities, and the concrete steps we've taken to achieve those goals up until now and what we hope to achieve in the months to come. Second, it was an excellent opportunity for me to outline some of the important investments we're making through the supplementary estimates process. And third, and perhaps most importantly, all of the questions you asked--the very informed questions, I thought--following my presentation gave us all a chance to delve into a number of matters, both when I was here before the committee and afterwards with officials, and even subsequent to that in written form where we tried to answer the questions given to me. And I hope that's been useful, as I think we all are trying to find the right answers and explanations for what's going on in first nation, Métis, and Inuit communities across the country.

These are all important issues. They include everything from new homes, modern infrastructure, better education and schools, state-of-the-art water and waste water systems, an accelerated specific claims process and the tribunal that guides that, and honourable and long-lasting land claim settlements.

Following on supplementary estimates B, supplementary estimates C contain several long-term investments that will help the government and our provincial, territorial, and aboriginal partners take greater action on many of these fronts. To be more precise, this version of the supplementary estimates includes initiatives that total just over $118 million.

Before I go any further, I should point out that this $118 million does not require Parliament to appropriate new money, other than an increase to a loan vote for the preparation and negotiation of specific claims. Spending in supplementary estimates C is largely covered by funds available within existing reference levels, primarily attributed to claims reprofiling. These funds are being used temporarily to reduce the amount of new appropriation required, and they will be made available for their intended purposes next fiscal year. As a result, this investment does not increase my department's budget beyond the current $7.2 billion total for the 2008-09 fiscal year.

That being said, Mr. Chair, other specific investments listed in the Supplementary Estimates deserve mention. They are actions already taken to deal with some pressing issues, and I know this committee would want to be fully aware of them.

I know the committee wants to be fully informed or aware of these. Let's just go through them quickly.

First, we provided some $54 million to help residents of remote and isolated communities who suffered undue hardship as a result of rising fuel costs last year. Just prior to Christmas last year, I had several people from the committee approach me, as did a couple of the leaders in the House, who were quite concerned about the rising fuel costs in some of these remote communities. It was in the news. This $54 million was meant to address that hardship.

Secondly, we allocated approximately $26 million to empower first nation communities to address urgent and critical needs brought on by fires, floods, and evacuations.

Third, we invested more than $15 million to speed up even further our efforts to resolve specific claims.

And fourth, we added $10 million to the food mail program. This program reduces the cost of shipping nutritious food and other essential items to northern communities that lack year-round surface access.

These were effective responses to immediate challenges.

I should also point out, Mr. Chairman, that supplementary estimates C include a $44.5 million transfer between votes. This transfer allows the department to address critical pressures in the areas of fuel price increases for diesel generating plants on reserves; additional provincial education buildings for students from first nation communities who attend provincial schools; and the operation and maintenance of personal care homes in first nation communities.

Taken together, the investments contained in these supplementary estimates illustrate this Conservative government's focused approach to addressing the immediate concerns of northerners and members of first nation communities. Combined with the spending commitments contained in Canada's economic action plan, these investments also demonstrate that we're serious about addressing the long-term needs of men, women, and children in first nation and northern communities. In fact the government's approach can be summed up in three straightforward sentences. We're making pragmatic investments. We're working with partners. And we're getting results.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I look forward to answering your questions in the three areas: the investments we're making, the partnerships we've developed, and the results we're getting from those.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We'll now proceed to questions from members, beginning with Mr. Russell for the Liberal Party.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair,

Good morning, Minister. Good morning to your officials as well. It's good to have you here again.

In terms of the supplementary estimates C, you don't want any new money, basically, but you're reprofiling money, or taking money from certain areas that were already budgeted and applying it elsewhere. Specifically, what areas are we taking money from?

[Michael Wernick, Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

It's a year-over-year profiling issue. These are largely claim settlements that haven't closed, so the money is not required in this fiscal accounting period. It will be used next year for those agreements that do close. So Parliament set aside money in anticipation of claim settlements; we don't need that room in our budget, so we're using it for these other purposes.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

According to our notes, a fair portion of the money is concerning the Cree-Naskapi claim and the new relationship or new deal that's been struck with them. Is there a delay in the implementation of this particular—

[Michael Wernick]

It's schedule of payments. There's no major holdup in the implementation that I'm aware of.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

So money you had budgeted to pay the Cree-Naskapi is basically not being paid out.

[Michael Wernick]

It will be paid out in one year, as opposed to another year. It's just a question of which fiscal year it will fall into for reporting purposes.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

So will that impact them at all in terms of the programs, the services, or the types of things they want to undertake in their communities?

[Michael Wernick]

No.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Okay.

Where else is money being taken from?

[Michael Wernick]

It's not a question of “being taken from”; it's money that's not being used in the claims settlement area. That's basically it.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

On the food mail program, it seems that every year, or at least in the last three years I've been here, the department comes back each and every year to ask for approximately $10 million. It's always taking it from another area and putting it towards the food mail program, which I believe you pay Canada Post to deliver.

Why do we have to do this every year, year over year? It says here that it's exceptional, but it's not really exceptional, as it seems this is the third or fourth year this has happened. Is there any talk of bumping that program up? Because there seems to be a need year over year, over and above what's budgeted for.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I think the deputy would like to get into the technical part of it.

Certainly this last year we've started quite an extensive consultative process with communities and individuals and companies that make extensive use of the food mail program. The costs on the food mail program continue to go up every year, which is probably understandable. There have been, I'd say, quite a few complaints about how the system is run. In other words, as you say, it's a system that subsidizes nutritional food costs in remote northern communities, both in the far north and in the northern part of the provinces as well. There have been observations over the last couple of years, and probably preceding that. People say that it's a system that's been in place for a long time but it doesn't reflect modern reality. So some people have made suggestions on how it can be improved.

I actually appointed a special representative late last summer to start the discussions and make sure consultations started with those communities and companies and individuals. And there are lots of suggestions out there on how it can be made more efficient. There are suggestions on everything from points of entry--where those points of entry for food are located and designated--to how Canada Post itself does the contracting and allocations, and also on whether we should move to a more retail subsidy program rather than the food mail subsidy, because the mail system may not be the best and most efficient way to make sure that subsidy gets to the people who need it.

So all those things have been in discussion. What we've done--and you're right, we've done it again this year--is we've put that $10 million into it, because we're not prepared to just jack the prices of food up through the ceiling while we do this review. So we've been doing this review, and it's ongoing, but it's been necessary to come back for that special allocation each year.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

We're talking about budgetary measures related to 2008-09, and you've just made in the last week three announcements regarding schools. It's my understanding that none of that money is related to the 2008-09 capital expenditure plan, but that it is in fact dealing with the stimulus.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

That's right.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Now, there must still be money left or announcements to be made under the 2008-2009 capital expenditures plan regarding schools. Is that right?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Yes, although there are only three weeks left, so there won't likely be a lot of school announcements in the next three weeks from the 2008-09 budget. We're putting the final details together on the 2009 budget, the stimulus package, which involves ten schools and three major renovations, and there are a few more announcements to come out on that yet.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

So has all the capital expenditures money been allocated or announced for 2008-09? Has it been totally utilized?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Yes, pretty much. It's always ongoing. The whole budgetary process never stops. But as for the major announcements, I'm not aware of anything major—I think I'm right on this one—in the next three weeks that comes from the 2008-09 budget, other than, as I say, there's ongoing work on capital improvements. We spend hundreds of millions a year on capital investments through the regular budgetary process, so that will continue, but there's nothing hanging in the wings over the next three weeks.

[Michael Wernick]

The only thing that would be left would be very minor repairs and things of a small nature. We try not to leave any money on the table at the end of the year, but it has to be properly contracted and committed before the end of the fiscal year.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

So under the stimulus portion of the budget itself, of course, we're looking for transparency and clarity. Is there going to be a sense, from our vantage point, of where that money's going to be spent, that new money, over and above what's in the A base or what's already planned for 2009-10? Will that be provided to us?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Certainly all of the money that was announced in the 2009 budget, the over-and-above money, if you will, for the ten schools and the three major renovations, was all identified in the preparation for the budget process. So the schools were all taken off our national priority framework, allocations were made. We made application into the system during the budget preparation period, after consultations with premiers and with aboriginal leaders and so on. So it will be perfectly clear and obvious. The building of all those schools will start this year, but you'll be able to see the complete list very shortly, as soon as the frost is out of the ground. In most places that's when the construction will start very quickly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

Mr. Lemay, for seven minutes.