Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 27th, 2010

[Michael Wernick]

The projection for next year would be very, very close to $60 million, but we can get you more precise figures.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Okay, and from the last two years, hopefully, by the end of the meeting.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'm sorry, I don't want to be obtuse, but if you want the transfers to Canada Post, are you looking for what Canada Post actually spends, or what the whole food mail program entails?

It's some $2 million for Canada Post to administer the program, and the program itself totals approximately $60 million.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Right. Well, you can give me all those figures. I don't want to focus on details right now.

One of the biggest issues in the north, as you know, Minister, perhaps the biggest issue for aboriginal people, is poor implementation of land claims. In particular, in my riding in the Yukon, a nine-year review, as you well know, has been going on for 11, 12, or 13 years. To the credit of your department, you signed off on an agreement, and finally, after years of waiting for the money to run their governments, they should have it now. But some other federal department has put up a roadblock. Can you tell me where we are and when we're actually finally going to get that finished?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

That is a big issue, and I understand that. In fact, when I was up in your neck of the woods late last year for the intergovernmental forum, I met with the first nations and the Government of Yukon, and clearly this was one of the big issues. The other one was the mandate of CanNor and how it's going to decide that—and we can talk about that as well. But certainly the other issue was the negotiation of the FTA.

What we've been focusing on is really twofold. One is that first nations have been keen to address what they see as some more needs on the governance part of that agreement. They see that--

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Right. Try to make it quick, so I can get some more questions. So I know that's right, yes. I just want to know when the whole deal's going to be finished, because you had a signed deal and now some other federal department has stopped it.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Yes, but there's never a deal until the deal is completely signed off on both sides. It needs to be ratified on both sides. There are ongoing negotiations that have taken place, and discussions that we've been having on this, but as I said, there are really two issues. One is the governance side, and the other one is the own-source revenue issue and how for the own-source revenue there's a certain category of own-source revenue that deals with resource revenue and some other things that are dealt with one way, and then there are other own-source revenue that need to be discussed and settled on as we move forward. So really the discussion is not focusing on the OSR that we've had in times past. I think there's a consensus on how that's going to be handled and how that needs to be handled going forward.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

When's the deal going to be finished?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

The difficulty is the devil in the details on the OSR from other sources of revenue in the longer term.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

So after years of waiting, when is it going to be finished? That's all. They were expecting it to be finished by now, this month.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'm always hopeful that it's going to be finished as well, but these things are complex and they are usually multi-year deals. This deal may take effect over the next 15 years, so people on both sides of the table are careful when they're signing on, because you're signing on for 15 years and you want to know what it is you're doing. That goes for both governments, first nations and federal.

So I can't give you a date. Those things come to fruition when all the stars line up, but it's hard to say today is going to be the deal because there are many different governments involved in this.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Okay.

On Bill C-24 and Bill C-25--which you mentioned are coming up, and which are good bills, I think--in your discussions with your House leader, do you foresee us getting those through before Parliament closes down, or on the agenda?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I don't have a date for when they'll be debated. I'm not sure even today... I know there was a bit of going back and forth on what's going to be on the agenda even next week, but I don't have a date when that might be debated. Again, I only control part of it. I'm prepared to put up one speaker, or no speaker and sit down and be quiet, if we can get them through quickly. So trust me, anything we can do to get them through, I'll help make it happen.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

One last question--

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Todd Russell]

You have 30 seconds.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

If you can't answer this now, could you get back to the committee in writing? I have just three short questions.

You said what the budgeting was this year. Could you let us know what percentage of increase that was from last year?

I'd also like to know the estimate you used in budgeting for the increase of the number of status Indians for this coming year, because you have to pay for each one.

Lastly, I'd like information on the estimates that your financial officials used for inflation when you were calculating the payments you would have to make.

You can get back to the committee on that through the clerk.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Todd Russell]

That will do right to the second. Thank you, Mr. Bagnell and Mr. Minister.

Monsieur Lemay, for seven minutes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I want to thank the deputy ministers for being here.

My first question is about the Registry of the Specific Claims Tribunal. Mr. Minister, you know we passed legislation to implement the Specific Claims Tribunal, more than a year ago now. I see the budget.

Is it operating? Has it begun working? Are details available? Could we have some information on the Specific Claims Tribunal? I would ask you to keep it brief as I have only seven minutes, as you know.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

We can get you as many details as you would like. Where we're at is that there is a panel of judges that has been struck who have come together, and they are in turn giving us advice as to how it should be set up to make sure that we're respectful of the judges' autonomy and their ability to work with their chief justices in each of the provinces, and as well giving us an administrative overlay as to how they see this moving forward.

We're working with them, but we're trying to be respectful to make sure that... We're trying not to give too many orders, because it needs to be independent. So there is that panel of judges. I've met with them and certainly given them the assurance that we will support them in any way, but also ensuring they're developing a budget and developing, really, protocols on how it's going to work with their chief justices so that they can make sure the work can get done and that the independence they need and desire is maintained.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Yesterday, we were briefed on Bill C-25, An Act respecting land use planning and the assessment of ecosystemic and socio-economic impacts of projects in the Nunavut Settlement Area and making consequential amendments to other Acts. My colleague from the Yukon called it a good bill. I may not be willing to go that far, but it is not a bad bill since it was prepared in cooperation with the Inuit of Nunavut.

Perhaps I did not read the estimates correctly, but will funds be allocated to implement Bill C-25 if it is passed in the current session?

I did not see anything in the supplementary estimates.

[Michael Wernick]

The tribunals that are operating will receive the necessary funding.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I was not talking about the tribunal, but the implementation of Bill C-25.

[Michael Wernick]

Its implementation will add to the workload of certain agencies in Nunavut, including the Nunavut Impact Review Board. They will get the resources they need.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

Here is a trick question. Were Bill C-3 to be passed—which would be unfortunate, in my view—would the funds be available? It is estimated that 40,000 to 45,000 more people would be integrated. I do not see any administration funding anywhere in the supplementary estimates. Has money been allocated for that?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

It's dependent on getting the bill passed. Until the bill is passed and we know what form the bill is in... It may make considerable difference as to what obligations the department or individual first nation governments may have subsequent to that. We can't put in an estimate of the cost yet, because we don't know what the bill will look like.

We have an expert panel, which I spoke to you about last time I was here, that is making some rough guesses right now. They're not guesses; they're using their expertise—we have some very good people on that panel—but all they can do at this stage is talk about the kinds of expenses, the kinds of issues we'll have to address. Until the bill is passed, we can't in the estimates know what they might be. There might be 40,000 people, or 10,000 people, or 100,000 people—who knows?—and that, of course, makes a considerable difference.