Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 8th, 2011

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Okay, thank you

There was another interesting thing in terms of the vote that occurred to bring this forward to committee. I noticed there were quite a number of Liberal members who supported the bill, and I wondered if you had any comments in regard to that?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much.

As I said, I believe this is a very important issue. It is an issue that I believed would have received almost unanimous support from members of Parliament to ensure that aboriginal Canadians would have the same access to this kind of information that other Canadians do.

I was grateful for the 15 members from the Liberal caucus who stood with the Conservative caucus and voted in favour of sending this bill to committee. I am extremely disappointed, however, that the majority of the opposition voted against transparency and accountability on first nations reserves.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I understand, certainly, and maybe you could--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Go ahead.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Oh, thank you. I didn't know if Mr. Lemay was going to make some comments.

I understand, and maybe you could expound on why the legislation requires first nation governments to disclose remuneration and expenses for chiefs and councils. Do you have any further comments you'd like to make regarding that?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Currently this information is submitted to INAC, but it does not have to be publicly disclosed to the members or other Canadians, and that is why I introduced this bill. It was in response to calls from first nation community members who were trying to gain access to this information.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

How will the schedule of remuneration be made publicly available?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

First nations community leaders will have the opportunity to post this information on their community websites if they have a website. They could distribute it in hard-copy form to all community households or post it in a readily accessible place, such as a band office, so community members could see it.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Okay.

Will the implementation of this legislation increase the reporting burden on first nations?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

It will absolutely not. As was mentioned by members opposite and in my response to some of those questions, this information is already collected, audited, and submitted. This bill simply seeks to make it public for members of first nations communities and other Canadians.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Okay.

It's been suggested that Bill C-575 does nothing to enhance the financial accountability relationship between the government and first nations. What measures is the government taking to tackle this part of the accountability bargain?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

What I will say is that this is a straightforward bill that was introduced to enhance the accountability and transparency of first nations elected officials to their members and other Canadians. I know there are funding agreements between the government and first nations that clearly articulate the financial accountabilities between them, and that these agreements contain dual accountability requirements.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Okay.

It's also been suggested that Bill C-575 is simply detracting from the mechanism of the government in assisting first nations to become self-sustaining and that it implies all chiefs are corrupt. I wonder if you could give us your comments on that and your thoughts on the bill.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Absolutely. Again, I think I addressed this in my opening statement.

I believe that there is nothing further from the truth. Some first nations chiefs and councils have pointed out that they should not all be painted with the same brush, and I agree with that. By publicly disclosing this information, first nations chiefs and councils will demonstrate their commitment to transparency and accountability and dispel this criticism.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I did give a speech in the House on this particular bill. I'm very positive on it and I believe in what the bill is trying to do. I understand that you have support for this bill from one of the chiefs and have made it public. Could you comment on that for me, please?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I will.

As I've mentioned in my statements during the debate, there is strong support for Bill C-575. First nations communities and Canadians from all across the country have been expressing support for this bill. I was very pleased that Chief Darcy Bear from Whitecap Dakota First Nation endorsed my bill very strongly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Mr. Payne.

We have time for just two questions of three minutes each.

First is Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you again for being here, Ms. Block.

Let me just say at the outset that I take great exception to your characterizing those who did not support this bill coming to committee as being opposed to transparency. I speak for myself as one who sat for days, 24 hours around the clock, to deal with Bill C-7 in 2002, which dealt with many of the issues related to transparency, and as one who advocated very strongly for the Kelowna accord, which very much advocated and had the tools and the infrastructure and had followed the processes of consultation that many of us value in developing legislation related to aboriginal people.

What I am most concerned about is how you reconcile this bill calling for transparency with your own government's unwillingness or inability or blockage of transparency of many other issues that are coming before this House. I just find the hypocrisy of it breathtaking.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Well, Mr. Chair, I have made it very clear that as a member of Parliament I strongly believe in the principles of transparency and accountability. I live by those principles, and that is the very reason I chose to bring forward this issue in the form of a private member's bill.

Again, I became aware that it was an issue--

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

You're not answering my question, though. How do you reconcile this bill with the blockage of information by, and the lack of transparency of, your own government on so many of the issues that members of Parliament are requesting information on?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I don't believe the purpose in my being here today is to reconcile this bill to anything but the need to respond to the call from first nations community members for the same transparency and accountability that other Canadians receive from their elected officials in the area of public disclosure when it comes to their remuneration and salaries.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I find that I'm repeating myself, but I find the lack of consistency and your unwillingness to address the real issues facing this Parliament right now quite stunning.

But thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Ms. Neville.

And the last question goes to Mr. Clarke, for three minutes.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank Ms. Block for coming to the committee today.

We had a lot of discussion and debate on this very bill when you brought it forward and were just asking for some of my input.

Just as some background, having lived and worked on over 11 reserves in Saskatchewan, I've seen the membership--not the chiefs and councils, but the band membership--wanting to see the books and being turned down in all forms and aspects, and then being punished because they were making those requests.

Just seeing your bill and how it takes into consideration the membership.... There are some good reserves out there that are transparent and that are accountable, and they should be complimented for doing that, but there are those out there that will not open their books. It doesn't matter if people go to the reserve during the band meetings; the chief and council will not let them open the books. I've had to do investigations on improper bookkeeping. At times, yes, there have been fraud charges laid.

My first question is this: why should first nations be forced to publicly disclose remuneration and expenses of their elected chiefs and councils? As well, is this an invasion of privacy?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I would like to start by recognizing the member, who I feel very privileged to have as a colleague in the Conservative caucus. He is the only first nations member of Parliament currently sitting in the House of Commons. He is also a colleague of mine from Saskatchewan. He is very correct when he mentions that I bent his ear quite a bit when looking at developing this bill. I got a sense of what was happening in Saskatchewan from him, for sure.

He represents two-thirds of the province in geography, and the majority of the first nations communities. He's doing a great job in his role as a member of Parliament representing those communities.

I've kind of lost track of your question, Mr. Clarke. What did you ask?