Evidence of meeting #6 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
We'll just move right down the row, if we can. Mr. Matthews, would you like to comment? No?
Mr. Quassa and then to Mr. Overvold.
4:05 p.m.
Vice-Chair, Nunavut Planning Commission
Thank you.
Very briefly, from the Nunavut planning perspective, the barrier has been lack of funding, not enough resources in that area, and certainly one of the areas that I think my colleague Bob mentioned briefly was the appointment process. This takes too long. We had situations where out of the nine board positions that we had, at times we only had five because the appointment process was taking so long. Sometimes it takes about six months to a year, maybe sometimes two years, even, to appoint some of the members who have been nominated by the appropriate bodies, such as the Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, the regional Inuit associations, the Government of Nunavut, and the Government of Canada.
Those nominations do sit in the minister's office at times for too long. At one time we almost had to not have a commission meeting because we were going to have no quorum because of no appointment. So that has been the barrier to our process when land use planning, as you say, is very important in our area, in all the areas that have that entity.
4:10 p.m.
Member, Sahtu Land Use Planning Board
Thank you.
I referred to the challenges—I prefer to use challenges, as opposed to barriers—but you spoke to them. Obviously there is funding and appointments, and perhaps I don't disagree with what Paul says, but I've seen it in our area, and not only is it perhaps not being dealt with fast enough in the minister's office, but we often don't get timely nominees from the GNWT and the Sahtu Secretariat too. So to me it's a very fixable solution. People just have to put their heads around it. Timeliness, I think that problem can be fixed.
In our case, I think the barrier—and I again referred to it in my presentation—is trying to come up with the right balance, whether it's the balance between areas that are going to be conserved and areas that are open for development. What is the right balance?
When we do drafts of the land use plan, we send it out for comment, not only from the parties—that is, the Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated, the governments of the NWT and Canada—but also stakeholders, industry, CAP, the NWT Chamber of Mines, that type of thing.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
We will have to hold you there, Mr. Overvold. If there is a thought remaining there, perhaps you can incorporate it in one of your other answers.
Mr. Lemay, go ahead, please. You have seven minutes.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Good afternoon.
I get very concerned when I listen to you. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me that everybody is preparing land use plans. Everybody is planning and that takes a lot of time. I imagine you read the McCrank report.
I'm speaking to the representative from the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board, Mr. Overvold. When I read the McCrank report, I see it stated that, in 2008—this is now two years later—the settlement of land claims... Wait, I'm going to read it to you because it's interesting. At a seminar, Walter Bayha—I don't know whether you know him—said: "The appointment process stalls Boards' decision-making and is outside their control." I just heard Mr. Quassa say the same thing, and probably Mr. Edjericon will say the same thing as well. Where is it blocked? Where does it stop? Is it at the minister's office? We will have to make recommendations. So how can we help you? Should we tell the minister to act?
I have a supplementary question. Today, March 30, are you still waiting for appointments so that you can operate, or is everything in place? Can you tell us today whether you are still waiting for appointments? They are all here, even the parliamentary secretary, who isn't listening to me there.
4:10 p.m.
An hon. member
Oh, oh!
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
But we're going to tell him, and he's going to hear it. The parliamentary secretary is stuck to the minister. So if you're waiting for appointments today, now's the time to say so. Tell us whether that's what's stalling the process, as was the case in 2008. I'll leave you the four remaining minutes to answer that question.
4:15 p.m.
Member, Sahtu Land Use Planning Board
Thank you.
As I said in my presentation, we have a full board, so all our appointments are made. Our terms are not up for about another year, and hopefully the appointments then will be timely.
Again, I don't disagree with Paul. The problem is timely appointments, but in my view, it's also getting timely nominations from, at least in my area, the other parties—the GNWT and the Sahtu Secretariat.
So everyone has to do a better job in getting people appointed. In my view, the blame doesn't rest with Canada.
4:15 p.m.
Vice-Chair, Nunavut Planning Commission
Thank you.
In our case, we have two more members we have been waiting for for the last two or three years now.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Wait! Pardon me, sir. I didn't understand. I would like you to repeat that slowly. Did you say you had been waiting for appointments for two or three years?
You have to answer because the secretary has to hear that!
Yes?
4:15 p.m.
Vice-Chair, Nunavut Planning Commission
That is true. As I've said, we've waited for about two years. At times, we have waited three years. I can't remember, since I've been on the board, the full board sitting there all at once. We've never had that situation yet, as far as I know. Since 1993, when we signed the final agreement, it started from there.
Thank you very much.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Mr. Edjericon, did you want to add anything on this particular question? Go ahead.
4:15 p.m.
Chairman, Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board
Yes.
Thank you for your question, mahsi.
One of the things I just want to make note of is that currently we have a full board. We had one appointment that came due in the fall, I think, from the Sahtu region: Mr. Danny Bayha. Prior to his appointment coming due, six months before it expired, we sent a letter to the Sahtu board and said that the position was going to be coming due. They sent us a letter, which was also sent to Ottawa for approval. From the time the position expired, it took 30 days to renew. I was really surprised that they acted that quickly.
Currently we have two GNWT vacancies that just came due. We sent notice to the Government of the Northwest Territories six months ago, as well, informing them that those positions were going to be coming due. I'm not sure how long it's going to take for them to put somebody in there.
I've been the chair for two years. One of the things I've been working on is those barriers and working with the government to make sure those positions are filled. But prior to that, I know positions have taken anywhere from 30 days to two years to fill.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
We're essentially out of time there. Merci, Monsieur Lemay.
Now we'll go to Mr. Bevington for seven minutes.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Thanks, Mr. Stanton.
Welcome, witnesses. I'm certainly pleased to be here with you.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time on appointments. I did that about a year ago when we had Mr. McCrank in front of us. At that time, we discussed the problems pretty fully. I really am pleased that you're reinforcing some of the issues around appointments, but I think we've had a good discussion on it.
Mr. Edjericon, I've heard that one of the issues you have with the present arrangement with the federal government comes after you work through an environmental assessment and then you move it on. The federal government departments interact with you at the assessment level; and when it gets to Ottawa, you have to repeat the process.
Perhaps you could explain that particular issue, for better understanding of the people here about that problem, with the repeat of federal departments on particular environmental assessments.
4:20 p.m.
Chairman, Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board
Thank you, Mr. Bevington.
Actually, he's my MP for the Northwest Territories, so it's good to see him.
A little earlier, I mentioned that some of our environmental assessments can take anywhere from a year to two years in the Northwest Territories, because it's a big process to go through. If you can imagine, companies like BHP, Diavik, and De Beers, big companies like that, can take two years to come out with a final report. There's a rigorous process in place, as well, coming to a final decision on a project like that.
We have very good board members from up and down the valley. We have business people. We have trappers sometimes on a board, and that kind of thing. So we have a different perspective. The people coming on the board have very good experience, and they're careful. They do their due diligence in terms of going through the environmental assessment process.
There's a whole process leading to the public hearing. Once it gets to that point and a decision is made, then it goes to Ottawa. Once the board makes that decision, it leaves our office. We put a decision document together on whether a project should proceed or not--if it has public concern or significant environmental impact to the area--and send it to the minister.
So we have done that. We've done that with BHP, Diavik, and De Beers in the Northwest Territories. It's taken some time. Sometimes responses from the minister's office can happen quickly. Sometimes, if there's an election or something's happening, it gets delayed. There are times when some files that have left our office are currently sitting in Ottawa waiting for a decision. We have more files coming up on environmental assessments this year, so this year's going to be another busy year.
In Neil McCrank's report, it talks about looking at a solution in terms of having an organization within INAC track these reports, because sometimes they could take anywhere from one to five years. We're hoping the new regulatory initiative that's going to come out soon may identify that.
I've read some of those documents in the budget, and it's in there, I think. It just needs to be clarified. That's all I noticed in it.
Thank you.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Okay.
Now to the Sahtu planning board, and perhaps the Nunavut Planning Commission could speak to this as well.
I think you identified an issue around quantums of land set aside for protected status, versus land that's open for development. This seems to be a hang-up with the federal government and with the territorial government, yet within the land use plans, don't you have an opportunity every five years to review these quantums?
Maybe you could lay that out, because I think that's been a real problem for the federal government to give up the control to say okay, there's 40% of the land that is protected. These planning boards have flexibility. If both of you wanted to speak to that, I'd appreciate it.
4:20 p.m.
Member, Sahtu Land Use Planning Board
Yes, that's true.
Again, I look at it more as a challenge, as opposed to a problem of talking this through.
First and foremost, we go in as a board saying we're a co-management board, and we represent the interests of the three parties who have to approve the plan. It goes to finding the right balance between lands that will be protected and lands that will be open for development.
The ultimate protection is conservation. There are other things in the Sahtu settlement area, including proposed protected areas--Canada protected areas--and we're working on a possible national park there as part of Nahanni Park, the northern watershed.
But you're absolutely right, all plans--and I'm assuming this will be the case in Nunavut--do go through reviews. Even though we don't have a plan yet completed in the Sahtu, we've had cases where communities had asked for an area to be protected but were now rethinking it, saying they wanted a part of it to come out because they were interested in a development project there, and they needed jobs in their communities. So even before we have a plan, they're doing it, but certainly, once a plan is approved, they could revisit areas that are protected and have them opened or created as management zones.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
We're out of time.
Perhaps, Mr. Quassa, if you have a thought on that, when we get to the next round you could maybe add that in to one of your responses. We'll get back to that.
Thank you, Mr. Bevington.
Mr. Duncan, seven minutes.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would just like to put on the record that I was indeed listening, Monsieur Lemay. I heard you loud and clear on terms of the appointments. We've now heard from two of the three boards that they have a full complement. I'll get a response for you from the Nunavut people.
Perhaps that will be my first question. How many federal appointments are there on your board, and how many of those federal appointments are empty? I'm asking the question. I don't know the answer, but I'm sure you can tell me.