Evidence of meeting #15 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indian.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Director General, Community Opportunities Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In our programming, we're talking about sections 53 and 60 of the Indian Act, where you delegate part of the federal authority to first nations themselves. It doesn't speak to a subsequent—
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
That's what I'm saying, and it says that some of that can be delegated to a corporation. My question is, does the Indian Act require consultation with the band before the minister delegates that authority to a corporation? Maybe we can look into the statute and revisit that later.
I know that some of the first nations near my jurisdiction, where my cottage is, want to pursue commercial leasing, because they've got big operations like utilities, railroads, and so forth. Some of the members are opposed to that because they're more traditionalist. So I'm just curious to know what the process is for that.
You had mentioned, Mr. Beynon, way back in our discussions, something about the involvement of the department in the negotiation of leases. I'm a little confused as to who actually does the negotiation of leases. Are there some occasions when the department itself does those negotiations directly?
I have another final question for you. What happens when there's an election and a change of chief and council, and there's an application in process and you may be very close to completion?
12:50 p.m.
Director General, Community Opportunities Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Very quickly, on the question of potential opposition within a community to proposed leases or major commercial development activities, again, much of those transactions would currently require a designation under the Indian Act, which does require community involvement. So if the opposition is strong enough, the proposals may be turned down.
With regard to who is involved in negotiating leases, in practice nowadays it's largely the first nations themselves who are seeking out opportunities and who are having the first contact with potential investors or developers.
Unfortunately, under the Indian Act system, once the proposal comes to us, very often you then have to draw in departmental officials, including Department of Justice officials, and you start to get the second-guessing about the nature of the proposal. Is it too risky? Is there a likelihood that the dollars won't flow as expected?
12:50 p.m.
Director General, Community Opportunities Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's right.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
If it is delegated, are all of those issues and the liability looked at by the corporation or the Indian band?
12:50 p.m.
Director General, Community Opportunities Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
If it is a delegated authority, then it rests with the first nation. But the liability hasn't been delegated by Canada, so the risk still rests on our shoulders.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
12:55 p.m.
Director General, Lands and Environmental Management, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Could you just repeat your question on the elections?
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I was just curious this, and I think it's been raised previously, maybe by your panel or another one. One of the complications is that there may be an election, and then things change. So I'm just curious to know, when there is a change in leadership, what happens to leases that were under negotiation, or what happens to negotiations for all of these things that we're talking about, land transfers, leases, and so forth.
12:55 p.m.
Director General, Lands and Environmental Management, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Things that are in negotiation with respect to a designation for commercial leasing, for example, depend on a band council resolution. That resolution is needed. So if a new band and council come in, the direction can shift 360 degrees. It can shift entirely, so that they might say that they don't want that designation any more or aren't interested in that commercial development, and it can stop completely.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Yes, your time's up. Thank you.
Mr. Seeback for five minutes.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
To echo my colleagues, this is always very informative, but also somewhat confusing for me. But I'm slowly getting educated, which is useful.
Going back to land management just briefly, I have two questions. The first one is, how do land management programs affect doing business on reserve? You've touched on that a bit today, but I'd love to hear a little more about how that works. Any one can answer that.
12:55 p.m.
Senior Director, Lands Modernization, Community Opportunities Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Maybe I'll take a crack at answering that.
Businesses, as we discussed earlier, want to engage in discussions with people who ultimately have the decision-making authority. They really seek certainty. Doing business depends on entering into leases, obtaining permits or rights-of-way, having clarity on the scope of activity the community does or doesn't support, and on where and when all of that development is desired.
Using the land for economic development requires a land management process or system that's responsive to those commercial expectations, so that the lands can be administered at the speed of business and the businesses don't go and invest their money elsewhere where they can get decisions made a little more quickly.
The more you can get the responsibility and the authority and the capacity into the first nations communities themselves, the more likely it is that they'll be able to attract that investment, because those business people will know they're dealing with the people with the capacity and the authority to conclude those discussions and give them the certainty they desire.
That's really been the thrust of our programming over the last 30 years or so. It has been about providing and introducing those tools and capacity into the first nations communities so they can engage directly with business, and about really trying to minimize the role, the unfortunately often necessary role, of the departments of aboriginal affairs and justice.
To get back to some of the earlier discussions on the wait times, that is really one of the keys to attracting that investment into those communities.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
Just for my education, is the 53/60 regime partway on the way to a first nations land management regime? Is it an intermediate step? Is it as if you might go through the 53/60 and then end up at the FNLM regime, or maybe stay there? How does that work?
12:55 p.m.
Director General, Community Opportunities Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I think you have it exactly right. It is a big move away from typically leaving all the authority with the minister. Some communities have moved through that stage and then ultimately to further stages. Some communities choose to stop at that point.
Yes, it does work to build capacity, because if you have a delegation of authority under 53/60, you will be engaged with much more responsibility for executing all of these land transactions, which can be a good pathway to the full authority.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
And do some communities go directly into FNLM regime and not through a 53/60 stage?
12:55 p.m.
Director General, Community Opportunities Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
My final question is this. What environmental management support programs do you have on reserve?
12:55 p.m.
Director General, Lands and Environmental Management, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I can speak to that question.
There are two major programs south of 60. You heard our colleagues from the north speak about the regimes that exist in the north, but it's quite different south of 60.
We have two major programs. The first is the lands and environmental action fund, which assists us and first nations in complying with our environmental requirements on reserve and in improving the health and safety of first nations communities. With those funds we do workshops and capacity building, providing knowledge and information, on fuel tank issues on reserve and waste management, solid waste management in particular. We help with the development of environmental management plans and frameworks for reserves, including managing environmental compliance, and with the development of good practices with regard to the main environmental concerns. These include solid waste, fuel tanks, hazardous materials, air and water quality, and compliance with existing environmental regulations on reserve under the Species at Risk Act and CEPA.
We also have a program for the assessment and remediation of contaminated sites. The primary department for that is Environment Canada. They have the federal contaminated sites action plan. We have a piece of that in our department that works south of 60, and we share the cost of that with the contaminated sites action plan. It's for assessing and remediating existing contaminated sites. Again, our northern colleagues have the bulk of that for the department, but as Andrew mentioned, we have about $12 million flowing into that. Those are the programs we have.
The challenge that we have, as we mentioned in our previous presentation, is the environmental regulatory gap on reserve. I talked briefly about our initiatives to attempt to try to address that. We're working closely with Environment Canada. We have some federal regulations that apply under species at risk, the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, and the Fisheries Act, but we fully recognize that there's a gap. We're working with EC to try to close that gap and come up with potential future legislative options.
We also recognize, as I mentioned earlier, that the regulations under the Indian Act that do apply are inadequate and outdated: the waste regulations, the timber regulations, and the mining regulations. We have a plan in place for updating those as well. There is also FNCIDA, which my colleagues work with. It provides an option for incorporation, by reference, of provincial regulations to deal with the environment on reserve.
1 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
That's a big subject to begin the last session with.
1 p.m.
Director General, Lands and Environmental Management, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I'm sorry, but that was a thumbnail sketch.