Evidence of meeting #30 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nations.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clarence Louie  Chairman, National Aboriginal Economic Development Board
Sharon Stinson Henry  Member, National Aboriginal Economic Development Board
Dawn Madahbee  Co-Chair, National Aboriginal Economic Development Board

4:50 p.m.

Chairman, National Aboriginal Economic Development Board

Chief Clarence Louie

Of course, whether you're native or non-native, we all want our kids to go off to college or university. That's a motherhood statement.

In my experience in Osoyoos, it wasn't until we started a construction company. We never had one journeyman carpenter before 1986. Then, once we started our own construction company, all of a sudden some of the guys, who were in their thirties at the time, wanted to go back to school. Now we've got seven journeymen carpenters.

It wasn't until we had our own winery on the reserve that two aboriginal people, one a band member and one from another first nation, went to New Zealand and went to Australia. Now they've got their degree in winemaking.

It wasn't until we had our own hotel on the reserve, Spirit Ridge, that now some of our people want to take hotel management courses.

It wasn't until we had our golf course, back in 1995, when we took over an old lease from the 1960s, that some of our people decided to go to California and Arizona to get their golf pro management certificate or degree.

That says to me that my people need to see economic development opportunities. Many first nations people don't feel the non-native companies will hire them. That's my experience. Why didn't we have any carpenters before? There have been wineries in the Okanagan going back to the fifties. Why didn't we have any people interested in going to Australia before to be winemakers? Why didn't we have people interested in hotel management? There have been hotels around the Okanagan for a hundred years. My people need to see economic development; then they get inspired. Then they think they have a chance and an opportunity, and they have hope. That's the experience at Osoyoos and that's the experience for many first nations.

Why do 37 different first nations come to Osoyoos to find work? There are golf courses everywhere else in the country; they could go to work at those golf courses, but they want to work at a first nation golf course. That's why they come to Osoyoos. They want to work in a first nation company. That's why they come to Osoyoos.

I always tell people, and I tell the National Chief this as well, that if you're going to say you support education, that's such a “duh” statement. That's a motherhood statement. I tell him to support economic development, because every educated person I know wants a job. After you get over the romanticism of what education is all about, to me education is to make yourself employable. That's why you get educated. That's why you get a trade or get a degree: you want a job. You want a resumé you can throw on the table at somebody.

Again, to me, the purpose of education comes back to the word “job”. If you're going to say you support more post-secondary education, then I tell the National Chief to say he supports economic development.

Once we start having economic development and start that ball rolling across this country on these 2,500 Indian reserves, you're going to see the graduation rates climb. It's like a middle-class neighbourhood; you're going to see our people earning a middle-class income. You're going to see our kids raised in households where at least one family member has a job. We won't need this Ministry of Children and Family Development coming and apprehending our native kids because nobody in that house is working.

That's the biggest reason those kids are at risk. The biggest dysfunction in that household is that the mom or dad isn't working; they're on welfare.

To me, welfare is the biggest problem among first nations. One former chief—he passed away—said to me that the worst thing the non-native people brought to our reserves was welfare. It was the very worst thing. Now we have this welfare cycle and this welfare mentality that took a hundred years to get to, but when people start seeing economic development in Ontario on Sharon's reserve, or in Don's area, or in Membertou or in Osoyoos or in Saskatoon, with one of the best golf courses, the Dakota Dunes, that's what inspires the aboriginal people.

That's what's going to get our people out of jail. That's what's going to stop our kids from being apprehended: when we put an economic focus to the Department of Indian Affairs and we start picking away at all of this 98% social service spending and the government stops telling us that our economy's discretionary.

You would never say that to your constituents. You would never say that to each other—that the Canadian economy is discretionary, the Alberta economy is discretionary, the Ontario economy is discretionary. That's the problem and the mindset we've grown up with. We've got to get rid of this dependency mindset. Independence only happens through creating your own jobs and making your own money as a family or as a nation.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

Thank you, chief.

Chief Stinson Henry, you wanted to jump in on this. Please give a short comment, and then we'll turn it over to Mr. Rickford.

4:55 p.m.

Member, National Aboriginal Economic Development Board

Chief Sharon Stinson Henry

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Just briefly, it's an excellent question. While I agree with Chief Louie, I really do think that education is paramount. You cannot get a job without a minimum education of grade 12.

In my first nation community we've been fortunate that our people are getting educated, but we have an adult population that never had the opportunity to go to school, and the skilled trades are key. I think what's happening with social assistance now is the Province of Ontario, at least, has brought in what they call Ontario Works.

I for one think that's a really good plan because it forces the folks on social assistance.... In some cases it's through no fault of their own—the economy's been bad—and even though we have a great economic engine in the area, they weren't ready to work. Education is paramount, because you won't get a job without it.

As the chief says sometimes too, if you really want a job, you'll get a job whether you have an education or not. There's always Tim Hortons. If you really want to work, you'll have a job, although it may not be what you really want.

I'm proud of our community. We've been able to supplement the funds for education to go into an adult ed program where those who haven't got a grade 12 get upgraded. We supplement it entirely. Then they get upgraded to go on to post-secondary, and if those funds aren't available there....We still rely on them; I'm not letting the government off the hook, to be honest. I know the chief doesn't agree, and none of us wants to rely on it.

In fact, what Rama gets is around $4 million, which is a pittance for what we've accomplished. What really aggravates me as a leader is that Indian Affairs insists on getting our accounting for own source revenue. It's none of your business. Do you require Bell Canada to give you their accounting? No, I don't think so, so get out of our business, get out of our hair, let us make money, and we'll look after our people at the end of the day.

However, I'm not letting you off the hook yet: you still have fiduciary responsibility until the Indian Act changes and improves what we've talked about today. We'll do it eventually. It's not going to be overnight, and one size doesn't fit all. There are still communities who need that help, so don't forget them.

Thank you.

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

Thank you.

Chief Stinson Henry, Chief Louie, Dawn, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate your testimony. As I said earlier, it really stems from a lifetime of experience, and I think that's of incredible value for our committee. It's not just theory, it's practical application. Truly that is what is helpful to our committee, and we appreciate it.

Committee members, we're going to suspend. Then we can have an opportunity to greet our guests as well. We'll return in camera for some committee business.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]