Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2012

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you.

As you know, Budget 2012—the economic action plan 2012—had $275 million in additional funding both for schools and for readiness for legislation for the new system that would be outlined in legislation.

For 2012, that was over three years. For 2012-13, the new investment will be $45 million to be allocated as follows: $20 million to respond to the 2012-13 call for proposals for the first nations student success program and the education partnerships program, which involve review and assessment by a national selection committee, and $25 million in 2012-13 to begin priority school construction projects.

You asked about the communities. You will be happy to know that the first one is Fort Severn, the northernmost community in Ontario, where you and I actually made that announcement. There is also Pikangikum, another community well known to you, where we made an announcement, and Tl'etinqox-t'in in British Columbia. As well, there is school replacement in Kwakiutl, also in British Columbia; design for school replacement in Lax Kw'alaams in B.C.; construction of addition and renovation for Peter Ballantyne in Saskatchewan; and design and construction for a new K-12 in Shamattawa, Manitoba. A portion of the $25 million was also allocated to St. Mary's in British Columbia to complete their school construction project, which is a kindergarten to grade 7 school, which I've also visited during the construction phase.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate that.

I want to spend a little bit more time on this particular line item with respect to what has clearly been a priority in the potential for a thoroughly consulted but nonetheless important step toward legislation. Of course, we know the physical presence of schools or their rehabilitation is also a key element to that success.

It seems to me that we're focused on education outcomes. I was wondering if you could elaborate on how this is intended to improve first nations education outcomes with specific reference to this idea of readiness for education legislation.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

In order to improve the educational outcomes, we have to establish structures and standards to support strong and accountable systems on reserve.

Right now, first nations students on reserve are the only children in Canada, with the exception of first nations children on reserves under self-government agreements, whose education is not governed by comprehensive education-specific legislation.

What we have clearly is a need for legislation to provide the framework for reform and better results, and that has been backed up by studies. We're all aware of the national panel on K-12 education. We're aware of the standing senate committee report. We're aware of the Auditor General's report. They're all basically mirroring each other and saying the same thing.

That's the key to success. That's the key to ensuring first nations students achieve the same outcomes as other Canadians. This has been our priority for some time, and we've made significant investments.

In 2008 we made an additional $268 million commitment and $75 million ongoing for the reforming first nation education initiative. Something Jean Crowder was making reference to was the $15 million annually for supporting the FNESC in British Columbia through the tripartite education framework agreement.

All of that has led to the foundation for our Budget 2012 commitment for having legislation in place by September 2014 to basically tie it in with the school year.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

If you can, Minister, I have one more question.

I noticed these estimates also indicate almost $2.4 million is allocated for specific funding to construct first nations education facilities. What is that in particular?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

That's an interesting small item. It is for the completion of two school projects. One is the Cat Lake school project in Ontario. I'm not sure whose riding that's in; is it in yours? The other is the Red Earth project in Saskatchewan. That's probably in Rob Clarke's riding, seeing as how you guys seem to have most of the first nations in your respective provinces, or very many.

The Cat Lake project is the construction of a new school, while Red Earth is an addition and renovation to the existing school. The money will facilitate the ongoing work to complete these projects.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

We'll turn now to Ms. Bennett for seven minutes.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Chair, first I'd like to raise the fact—and I apologize for not having raised it earlier—that there was a protocol at this committee that when the minister appeared, the meeting would be televised. We have always done that in the past. I would like to put on the record that this was something we unfortunately assumed, and that was a mistake.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Yes. I think we all did, and we didn't make arrangements. I know those rooms are tied up. I take your point, and we certainly will look into that henceforth.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

At the minister's next appearance, could we...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

We will work to make that arrangement.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

I'll just follow where Greg was going.

As you know from the special Chiefs Assembly on Education, some serious concerns were expressed. In looking at the estimates, I guess we're.... What exactly does “readiness for first nations education legislation” mean? What systems and supports are being developed? I need to know specifically what first nations have been consulted to develop the systems and supports or what first nations have been consulted on insuring the readiness for first nations education legislation.

It seems odd, in a set of estimates, that when everybody is worried about not being able to pay teachers properly, the issues that are continually raised by the chiefs are that this.... I'm not sure what this muddy language means.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you for the question.

During the life of this government—I talked about going back to 2008—we've done such things as the first nation student success program. We've also worked with first nation education authorities. We have examples in Nova Scotia and British Columbia, but we have other examples in virtually every province where we have signed regional accords and worked with schools in a way that promoted readiness for aggregation of schools so they would not all be operating as single entities and would have secondary support services like curriculum development and all that kind of thing.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Does that reflect the national panel? It said it would support the development of regional first nations education organizations. Is that what that money goes to now?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

That's what it's been going to since 2008.

We've put in some additional moneys this year, knowing full well that we're cranking it up. We're going to be pushing the envelope because we want to get first nation education in place. We have a commitment to do it between now and September 2014. If you think about consultation, drafting legislation, tabling legislation, getting legislation through the House, and so on, that's a pretty tight window. That's what this money is for.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

We're concerned over what was expressed by the chiefs—any chief, or any place you go—about the money being transferred into the classrooms to be able to pay the teachers properly, and money for language and culture just doesn't seem to come anymore. These are the things first nations are asking for.

It's not in the supplementary estimates. Can we expect that this gap in language and culture will be funded in the 2013 budget?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

All I can do is make reference to the agreement we have in British Columbia.

The language and culture issue was a sticking point in our dealings with FNESC. I'll stand corrected if the deputy has better detail or information, but my understanding is that we funded the equivalent of ESL on the basis that it would assist in the language and culture component of the education.

We have provincial comparability; it took extra money to do that. This is what I've always talked about. We're looking at getting to comparability. The legislation will include the whole funding model, so that not only will we have a framework for education that everyone can hang their hats on, but we'll also have a commitment on the funding side, which everybody has been clamouring for.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

I have to reiterate my colleague's concern about own source revenue. It seems that people are making money running a development, and then that goes to pay for the sewage. I think we've heard that at Westbank. We've heard it at a number of places. Own source revenue is a real stickler for FNESC and for people across the country.

Minister, after the beautiful stained glass window, I am concerned about the estimates. Even though you've allocated some money toward the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, there is trouble now with the documents and trouble with the commission starting late.

Would you be able to commit that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission will have the time to do its job properly? It seems a bit ridiculous that they're not even going to get the documents until after the date you're telling them they have to finish. They need the money to do this properly.

With regard to the February 24 report, I read it as an open plea for help—your help—to get them the money and the time to do the job properly. Turning over the documents seems to be taking way too long, obviously, but the fact that the Aboriginal Healing Foundation was rolled up.... It seems that the commission is not going to be able to do its work unless they get the extra time and the extra money.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

We're about a minute over, but I want to give the minister an opportunity to respond briefly.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

As the deputy indicated, the documents should all be in their hands next year. Their wrap-up isn't until 2014, so I fail to see the issue on the documents.

I can't speak for the other parties, the churches and so on, but federally I think we're in pretty good shape.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now turn to Mr. Richards for seven minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. I certainly appreciate it.

I want to ask you about the total of $136.5 million in the estimates to support the continued implementation of the first nations water and waste water action plan.

I wonder if you would elaborate a bit for the committee on how those funds will be used.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Obviously what we want to do on water and waste water is reduce the risk levels and deliver better results. We had the national assessment in 2011, so we had a benchmark to operate from. We have a long-term plan to improve on-reserve water and waste water.

Budget 2012 investments will support improvements in several areas. It has increased funding for on-reserve water and waste water operator training and operations and maintenance. With regard to supporting the creation of regional hubs to monitor and, where feasible, operate systems remotely, there is a huge opportunity there with new software and technology.

There is the opportunity to develop new circuit rider training program minimum program requirements. The circuit riders provide on-site training and mentoring. I've actually seen them in operation. I've gone to enough water plants now that I've seen these guys in action. I think it's pretty rewarding to see how things are coming along. A lot of the risk associated with water and waste water systems is not necessarily the infrastructure; it's the operators and the maintenance and the monitoring.

We're also supporting first nations in developing regional hub expertise and prioritizing capital investments to target the highest-risk systems. We've been doing a lot of that. For example, last year the government supported 402 major and minor first nation water and waste water infrastructure projects, and 286 are planned for the current fiscal year. Fewer infrastructure projects are planned and under way because we are now directing increased funding to operator capacity and improving the operation and maintenance of the systems.

It's important to note that economic action plan 2012 includes $331 million over two years to secure the progress made to build and renovate water infrastructure.

I think that's probably a fairly comprehensive response.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

I appreciate it.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

You have three and a half minutes.