Evidence of meeting #59 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site.) The winning word was public.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
I'll give Ms. Isaak the opportunity to say there wasn't agreement.
Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That is correct. There wasn't agreement—
Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I stand corrected.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Okay.
The reluctance of Canada to put this in the bill as it sits in the Environmental Assessment Act.... It's quite clear there that the act provides for participant funding, so why did Canada refuse to do it this time? Given that you refused to put it in the bill, why would we believe that you would provide it via regulation?
Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I think that at the time the government was not prepared to create a participant funding program in this piece of legislation but to provide for a future opportunity and create a regulation-making authority to do it in the future, should that be desired.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
“Should that be desired” meaning...? It's quite clear that every witness we heard says this is a very expensive part of Canada in which you can't get on a subway and come down to a hearing. It's been very clear that everybody who is affected by this legislation believes there needs to be an assurance that there will be participant funding.
Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I'm sorry, I mean, should that be desired by all parties, including the Government of Canada. Should there be an interest in creating a participant funding program in the future by the Government of Canada, then the provision is in the act to be able to do that.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
It borders on disgraceful. The Government of Canada doesn't need participant funding; all the other parties to this do.
This is not a pleasant revelation, that the Government of Canada has refused to put anything in place that will make this bill workable. You can't actually examine the potential impact upon benefits without getting people together to talk about it, and that costs money. That's the responsibility of Canada.
How do we believe that this will happen? We can't. You can't give us that assurance, can you, that this is just a new way of writing bills, whereby it's done in the regs and you can give every assurance that it will be in the regs and that the money will be forthcoming. On Tuesday, we heard from the Nunavut Planning commission that we will not be able to enact this legislation with additional funding even from Nunavut, let alone from the participants. There's no question about it.
It's like so much of the legislation that is raining down on this committee. Without the money to do the job, these pieces of paper mean pretty well nothing. Can you at least let us know whether, because this is so complex and has taken a decade of negotiation, the government will be able to agree at least that there will be a five-year review of this legislation?
Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We haven't provided for a five-year review. Experience in the past has indicated that five years is a very short period of time for a board to have experience to be able to review the activities and the effectiveness of a bill. Five years is a very short time in which to be able to have a history in order to have an effective review.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Five years is a very long time if there are not adequate funds to be able to do anything. It should be up to this committee to actually say this ain't working.
Environmental Policy Analyst, Environmental Policies and Studies, Northern Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Do I have a minute to add to that?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Sure, if you can give us a short answer, that will be the end of that question.
Environmental Policy Analyst, Environmental Policies and Studies, Northern Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In terms of the review, I think we have to remember that the commission and the board have been up and running for over 15 years now, so we have been able to benefit from their experience over the last 15 years. In a sense we had the benefit of having 15 years of practice in developing the bill to begin with. The board and the commission were invaluable in providing us their expertise in the development of the bill.
We have also implemented a land claim agreement, so there is quite limited scope actually for changing some provisions, many provisions, most of the provisions of the bill, because we have to make sure that they stay consistent with the land claim agreement.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thanks, Ms. Traynor.
Ms. Ambler, we'll turn to you for the next seven minutes.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today to explain this to us a little better in the late stages.
My questions are with regard to the Nunavut planning and project assessment act. There's been some discussion today with witnesses in the committee about appropriate levels of funding for the NIRB, the Nunavut Impact Review Board, and the Nunavut Planning Commission so that they can implement the NUPPAA.
Can you provide a level of assurance in terms of the specific process later on for securing suitable funding? In other words, can you tell us how this will be accomplished even though it's not specifically laid out here in front of us?
Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The Nunavut planning and project assessment act to a large extent implements the planning and assessment process that is already in place in Nunavut. Nevertheless, some incremental costs are expected, and the department recognizes that appropriate funding levels will need to be negotiated once Bill C-47 receives royal assent.
In terms of how this is done, funding for institutions of public government in Nunavut is determined on a tripartite basis, negotiated among Canada, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, and the Government of Nunavut, through the implementation contract. The Nunavut Impact Review Board and the Nunavut Planning Commission are required to provide annual work plans and budgets in order to access the funding allocated to them under the implementation contract.
February 7th, 2013 / 9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Thank you.
Also, with regard to funding and the requirement for the commission and the board to implement and maintain a public registry of documents, such as bylaws, rules, guidelines, decisions, and project proposals, we heard that these would all be maintained and provided online. This is obviously a significant undertaking and responsibility, something rather new. We heard about this and the new responsibilities just the other day. Would you say that all of these issues related to that kind of administration, the online registry and so on, have been addressed? Is the capacity there, would you say, for the organization to be able to do this?
Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I would say that at this time not all the capacity issues for the registry have been addressed. While the commission and the board largely acknowledge that as public institutions they have a duty to share certain information with the public, the bill requires an Internet-based public registry as a means to doing so. It's expected that the resources required will be a key component of the tripartite funding arrangement that I laid out in the earlier answer. That will be part of the discussions about how to fund a registry.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
The tripartite agreement will look after that as well, participant funding as well as the online registry.
Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
It will address the issue of the registry. It will not address the issue of the participant funding.
Conservative
Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's right.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Okay. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
So really, the bill itself is not the place for that, because there is a mechanism through the tripartite agreement.