Evidence of meeting #65 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
You've said that native women are the most impliquées, touchées by this legislation. Did the author of this bill, the member, meet with you to run this idea past you as half of the indigenous population in this country?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I saw in the media last October that his colleague gave me a business card. I heard about it, but I got no personal invitation. I have to be frank also: I didn't knock on his door, because I thought that it would pass, that it would never get to this stage. See, I'm learning too about politics. We'll make sure that we keep that dialogue to make sure that we do it together.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
And if he had met with you or asked to meet with you, I take it that you would have given the same advice you're giving the committee today: do not go this route.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I probably would have, but with more passion. We'd be face-to-face and with a coffee maybe, but with the same concern—French, English, it doesn't matter. But yes, we would bring the same advice, and even more because of the time.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
You've been very clear that the Indian Act has to go. Who is in charge? Whom do you see as responsible for putting in place a process for getting rid of the Indian Act?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I'm not sure I understand.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Who in a gathering between the crown and first nations, in any movement, would be the person you would need to have on side if this was going to change?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I'm sure there is good intent in Mr. Clarke's actions. But not only should the AFN be participating, but the Native Women of Canada MUST, in capital letters, also be involved.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
But on the government's side, who is the person who's supposed to drive this process?
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Do you think we should call the Prime Minister to this committee and see if he actually is going to get on with something meaningful?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Please! He didn't accept a simple meeting with the GG and the chiefs of Canada. I doubt if he would come. But if he agreed to sit down, I'm sure people would make sure that he got the message that there's some willingness on our part, and on my part too, that we should have that dialogue.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
You were also affected by the Indian Act, as was the member who crafted this bill. There are some things in the bill that seem to be problematic, like the inability of a band to declare itself dry, or issues with the civil code in Quebec on estates and wills. So just to repeat: you don't think it's possible to fix this bill. You think it needs to be withdrawn, correct?
Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
With respect to wills and estates, you're talking about billions of dollars held in trust for Indians. To alter the protections currently in place, as archaic as that process may be, is a very dangerous road to walk.
Liberal
Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
We would need to have other measures. We need to have other protections in place. Right now, you're seeing the systematic dismantling of any protections for first nations. Treaty rights are being taken apart piece by piece. You're having the Canadian Human Rights Act apply on reserve. There is a push to have matrimonial real property rights apply on reserve. Next it will be taxation, wills, and estates. So you're getting to the notion that all Indians will be the same as other Canadians.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
So if this bill passes, you are worried that all of this, the wills and estates, will be put at risk.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Ms. Bennett, your time as expired.
Mr. Boughen, we will turn it over to you.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I welcome our witnesses this morning and thank them for taking time to share part of their day with us. I appreciate that.
Teresa, you mentioned something about protections. I didn't quite pick up on all the things you were saying. Are you addressing anything to do with discrimination between first nation women and men under the Indian Act? Is there a need to have protection for that? Can you expand on that a little bit?
Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
No, that's not what I was referring to. I wasn't referring to being protected from Indian men. Michèle also made reference to how we're marginalized in the Indian Act, even currently, with issues such as status. I know that's not the matter at hand, but when we talk about protections.... When you have Indian status, that directly correlates with membership, benefits, housing, schooling—all of your treaty or band rights. Right now, even with the implementation of Bill C-31 and Bill C-3, we still have a situation that hasn't been rectified, where women and men with the exact same parents are not sitting with the same Indian status, thereby leading to their not having the same rights to pass on to their children and grandchildren.
Although it looks on the surface that it's addressed by Bill C-3, if you examine Sharon McIvor's case, which she's taking to the UN, you will see that she still does not have the same, as it were, “Cadillac of rights”, as her brother. They have the exact same parents, but for the fact that she is a woman, she has lesser rights. That has an impact when you are talking about their continuing to pass on those rights. Those were more the protections that I was looking at.
In 2013, half of the aboriginal women population are not married—80% of women are single mothers raising their own children alone. When they go to register their children for Indian status with their band, it's not up to their band but the registrar at Indian Affairs. The mother will indicate who the father is on the Indian birth registry to ensure that her child has status. When that form gets to the national registrar in Ottawa—one registrar—the office will strike it out as void if the father has not signed that birth registry. That's a practice that is currently under way. In many cases, the woman is not with the man. She could have been raped. It could have been a case of incest. She could have had a child with a man who is married. Of course he's not going to want to sign the birth registry. She is at the will of the man. Therefore, there's a negative assumption that the child is not native, thereby removing the mother's rights to be eligible for housing for possibly five children. She'll be allocated a house for herself, because the way that the funding agreements go, they will only count status Indians. That's what I refer to when I talk about women being further marginalized and having lack of protections within the Indian Act. It's more a result of the impositions of the Indian Act and the inequalities in government processes. It's not something aboriginal men are doing.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you for that.
Both of you women have been talking about the changes that Mr. Clarke introduced in his private member's bill. I would ask you this. If you are unhappy with what you see in the bill, and unhappy that the bill even exists, what's the alternative? For years this act has been in place and there has been no change to it, or very little change that anyone would ever notice. Now we have a member of Parliament who says that the Indian Act needs to be changed and has publicly stated that he would welcome amendments to his bill. Yet there is this seeming resistance to the bill being put on the floor of the House and voted on.
Can you help me understand what you would do if you don't follow this path? How are you going to effect change? This is a change agent. It may not be massive, but it's the start of a change. Mr. Clarke's bill has been a change agent. How would you address this differently?
Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
Well, change is not always good, right?