Evidence of meeting #74 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regulations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
There were concerns that there might be some untoward effects on these agreements coming out of Bill S-8, which haven't been cleaned up in the bill other than in a vague letter from a minister.
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat
I think on the MTAs, they're as varied as the municipalities in the country. Even in Atlantic Canada, there is variability among agreements, and the level of clarity in those agreements is kind of all over the map, and a lot of them have—
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
I think the question is on liability. It sounds like, from the municipalities, they're a little concerned that Bill S-8 confers some liability to the local municipality.
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat
In a way it's like they're providing a service to the communities. The issue is that if you're a municipality in Nova Scotia or wherever, you have to follow what the provincial law is. You have to follow what regime there is in the province in the provision of water. If they're providing me with water and they're also under the provincial regime....
I know in my own community, we have an MTA with the Cape Breton Regional Municipality. We have the expectation that CBRM is liable in terms of provision of the water and being able to meet the provincial standards in terms of quality and in terms of service. They clearly understand that in our discussions.
In the communities, that's the kind of discussion you have to have, basically. You have to fully understand that and be clear about it.
I think open dialogue and communication, as they were talking about, is the way to address it. You have to talk about these serious issues, whether it is around liability or concerns.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
I guess I just want to say that every place I've been, the pride that these water operators show you around their place is a really good thing in terms of the bottom up. Everybody wants clean water, and all of them would feel awful if anything happened. But in the flexibility of it, I have been concerned that people who have been doing their jobs for 30 years are somehow having trouble meeting a written test sometimes, when they could easily pass an oral test; I don't know.
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat
I think it goes back to the training standards that are set. You know, in different professions, in different things, there are different ways to test for those individual skills. Maybe that's something that needs to be part of it, in terms of making sure that they do the test in Mi'kmaq, or do the test in Maliseet or Ojibway or Salish or whatever, so that the person has a conceptual framework in terms of when they respond to something, such a process at the plant.
A lot of our people are very visual in terms of how they describe stuff. You need to really come up with an appropriate measuring stick, as you said, that makes sense. I think there's a variety of options there. We just have to really work to figure it out, working with our communities and working with our people and working with the people who provide the training and so on to ensure that we attain that standard, basically.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
We'll turn to Mr. Boughen now for just a few minutes for some final comments or questions.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you, Chair.
Let me add my voice of welcome to the panel. It's good of you folks to give up your time and spend it with us. We need that input, and it's good to have you here sharing that with us.
I have a couple of questions for you. Anyone on the panel, feel free to answer. All four of you, if you like, feel free to answer.
In light of your extensive technical and on-the-ground experience, what aspect of your work would benefit from having a regulatory framework in place?
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Ontario First Nations Technical Services Advisory Group
Maybe I'll start.
Any kind of operation, be it water, waste water, or something else, needs some kind of standard against which to be measured. Certainly from the discussions I've had with Ontario first nation leadership, nobody has a concern about having regulations or having standards. The issues are around how it's implemented and how it's resourced.
You were mentioning about people who can't pass a test. In Ontario we use the provincial testing system for first nations operators, a decision made by the leadership. It seems to work. Yes, some people fell by the way as a result of that, but it's given us at least some degree of confidence. Unfortunately, it also means they go to the neighbouring municipality at $10 an hour or more, but that's life.
11:40 a.m.
Co-Chair, Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat
It's the same idea as Dr. Gagnon's example about driving on the highway, right? You just need those basic rules and regulations.
One thing that I can speak about on behalf of my community and my people, and the people who I represent on a larger scale in the Mi'kmaq nation, is that we are tremendously resilient and have proven our perseverance in anything we do. So it's just another hurdle, in my opinion, that we'll have to hop when the time comes. It's simple: we'll adapt.
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat
I also think that too. Right now, it's with the protocols, and I think greater clarity will help everybody. Greater clarity with this stuff helps. I think it will also help in communities in terms of raising the level of understanding of the importance of water as a public health issue or a public safety issue in the communities. I think it's very important that you don't drive on the right side versus the left side in terms of what you're doing.
Like Chief Vicaire said, I think we're very resilient. We've been here 10,000 years, so you tell us what it is, and I figure that we'll figure it out. That's my belief. I think and believe that the people who are involved in this work at the community level and in our leadership are really committed to do this and get it done. They'll put what needs to be put into it to get it done, because it is about safety of the people in the community at the end of the day.
11:45 a.m.
Co-Chair, Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat
I have one final comment and then that's it. I promise.
11:45 a.m.
Co-Chair, Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat
I've been listening all morning. I pride myself on listening, versus hearing. I've been listening to everyone on the panels, to the experts, and to the honourable members around the table here. You're all listening and paying close attention to this. I think that proves that we all relate to the issue of safe drinking water and waste water.
This is my final statement. This is not an Indian issue or a native issue; this is a Canadian issue. I'll end it at that.
Thank you.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you. That is the appropriate way to end this.
I certainly appreciate each one of you taking the time to be here. We certainly appreciate your testimony and your engagement in the questions and answers.
Colleagues, before we complete the meeting, I want to ask committee members to continue to reflect on possible amendments as we prepare to move through the legislation. As amendments are decided upon, if you would make us aware of those it would help the legislative clerk as he undertakes his work in preparation for clause by clause in the next number of meetings.
Colleagues, the meeting is adjourned.