Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 24th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

The time has gone significantly over, but if you did have something quick, please go ahead.

[Allan Clarke]

I am going to say something very quickly. It's about the bond regime and the First Nations Fiscal Management Act.

Back in 2012 there was a legislative review of the regime. It proposed a number of changes to improve it. It was a kind of normal course of events; after about eight years we looked at the regime to see if we could improve it and make it work better.

We've been working with the Finance Authority, the First Nations Financial Management Board and the Tax Commission to look at ways to accelerate and streamline participation in the FMA and reduce some of the administrative burden associated with the regime, as well as strengthen investor and capital market confidence in the regime. There's a series of proposals that have been put together by the institutions and they hope to come to this committee to talk about them.

In fact, they are on the Tax Commission's website if you care to take a look at them. They are quite explicit in terms of the types of changes that they are proposing. They are looking at support from parliamentarians on moving this along.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I did provide a little leeway there as I thought there was some helpful information being provided.

We've concluded the first round of questioning and we do have a little bit of time remaining. I think what I'll do is move to the first two slots in the second round, one for the NDP and one for the Conservatives. We'll do about a three-minute round on each side and then conclude our meeting.

Ms. Hughes, the next three minutes are yours.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you very much.

First of all, Mr. Beynon, I'm glad that you were able to present again, because last time around, we didn't get a chance to question you.

I want to get some clarification. You mentioned that through the national network of aboriginal financial institutions the Government of Canada provided, and I don't know if you misspoke, but you said $205 million, and yet your document on page 8 says $240 million. I just want to know which one is correct.

[Brad Cline]

It is $240 million.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you.

On page 9, you say that with the Government of Canada's commitment in 2011 to settle outstanding land claims and pay out approximately $1 billion per year to bands that are owed money.... I'm just wondering if this is on target, because we know this has been a big impediment for first nations to be able to move with development, whether it's housing or businesses. Have they been able to meet this target?

[Andrew Beynon]

We'll get back to committee members with a precise answer because that's some of our other colleagues who work in that area.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Okay, thank you very much.

On page 10, you indicate that the review identified a number of suggested changes to the act, including various administration and regulatory improvements and expansion of institutional powers. Again, I'm wondering if these are being worked on and whether there's consultation going on with first nations to draft legislation to look at some changes.

[Allan Clarke]

Yes, that's what I was referring to in my last remarks. There has been work going on with the institutions and the department, as well as first nations, capital markets, institutional lenders, to look at the legislative review and the results of that and to come up with some recommendations to government for how to improve and enhance the regime.

As I mentioned, there are descriptions of them on the First Nations Tax Commission's website. I expect that the Finance Authority and the Financial Management Board will also be putting the same information on their own websites in the coming days.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Again, on page 10 you talk about financial literacy and that there's still some support required to develop the financial management capacities. With the challenges there, have these been identified as to how that can actually be improved? What types of supports are actually needed that are still not in place?

[Brad Cline]

We are working with a national association called the National Aboriginal Capital Corporation Association. There are very specific program elements. We provide roughly about $7.8 million in financing to that association, which then works through that national network to develop the financial literacy and capacity not only of the board members but also of the people who work in the institutions themselves, because one of the key objectives here is to ensure the sustainability of the network going forward.

We work closely with that national association and then, as I mentioned previously, we do provide those supports through discrete project proposals with aboriginal organizations that identify what their literacy needs and challenges are with respect to their local area and their organization, including the support of business networks where there can be some learning opportunities. There are a lot of discrete initiatives in addition to that broader institutional network support.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you very much.

For our last round for the day, Mr. Clarke, for three minutes.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I thank the witnesses for coming in.

Allan, you mentioned in regard to the Indian Act how it's impeding development for first nations business opportunities on reserve. One of the things we mentioned, or what first nations have been doing or have been in partnership...was the First Nations Land Management Act, and how that's providing opportunities for businesses. You look at Osoyoos; you look at Westbank where they've moved away from that and we've seen them grow.

One of the things that Carol mentioned was in regard to first nations being able to draft their own legislation. Bill C-428, which I drafted, would allow first nations to develop their own band bylaws. Would that assist? That's one.

Two, in regard to first nations, also in my private member's bill, the Indian Act would actually be removed, and first nations could grow their own crops and sell them. How do you feel about that? Do you feel it would be beneficial?

I look at opportunities for first nations across Canada. They have different soils where things could be grown. You look in, say, Ontario where tobacco is being grown, for instance. You look in the Prairies where wheat, potatoes, corn, and anything like that can be grown for, say, alcohol production. Then you look at B.C., where they're actually growing grapes and making their own wine in Osoyoos. Could you elaborate further on that?

[Allan Clarke]

I guess there's a professional and a personal opinion about some of these things.

I think the Indian Act has two things that are striking.

The first part is it's an anachronism in paternalism, and I think some of the efforts to remove some of those things is very welcome.

The second part is technical. It is the major impediment to economic development on reserve, and you see that all over Canada. If you want an economy, I think most people would agree that you need to have jurisdiction over people, land, and resources. The Indian Act does not confer or affirm this jurisdiction. Where we have these optional pieces of legislation like the Fiscal Management Act, like the ability to write your own bylaws for instance, and so where you are affirming jurisdiction for first nations, that's where I think you're going to see, and we do see, much more success around economic development. Whether you call it the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, or the First Nations Land Management Act, or any of these other types of legislation that get people out of the Indian Act, I think it is definitely the way to go. I think that most chiefs across Canada who are participating in these regimes would probably be saying the same thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you.

Time has essentially expired on that round, so with that, we'll conclude our meeting today. We'll see some of you back here on Thursday for our subcommittee meeting.

The meeting is adjourned.