Evidence of meeting #41 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
But at the end of the day there are still some barriers when it comes to being able to access land, additions to reserves, and land claims that would help you be able to develop faster. Is that correct?
10:05 a.m.
Chief, Muskoday First Nation, Saskatchewan, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
If that happened, if the additions to reserves process moved at the speed of business, in my own first nation we'd be moving in leaps and bounds. We can't access the very strategic land that we selected for economic development adjacent to the city because of additions to reserves being so pokey and slow. The land is on the major thoroughfare from a major highway from Prince Albert to Saskatoon, which services Prince Albert and the north, so that's denying or delaying the development on about 150 acres of land strategically selected for commercial light industry.
10:10 a.m.
Councillor, Chippewas of Georgina Island First Nation, Ontario, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
If I could just add, we've had an ATR in the process for 20 years now and it's still not approved, and we've had consent from the municipality as well as the first nations. They've come to agreement, and it is still tied up in the bureaucracy.
I agree that it should be moved quickly and there should be some solution to that aspect.
10:10 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Coming off that point, Chief Bear, it's interesting you also pointed out the support of municipalities. We heard from the chief of a first nation in northern Manitoba last week, and he talked about a parcel of land that's been in the works for 12 years. All it needs is a signature from the minister. It's located in the municipality of my hometown, which has embraced this proposal. Tremendous work has been done to bridge relationships between first nations and municipalities, to overcome racism that has existed for far too long, yet the barriers placed by the federal government and the delays we see from the federal government are evident and simply don't make sense.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Blake Richards
Sorry, we'll have to stop you there, Ms. Ashton.
Mr. Seeback, you have the next five minutes.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
Great.
Chief Bear, I think you said in your opening statement that there are 112 signatories to the FNLMA regime. There are 54 to 55 that are operational, so we're at about a 50% operational rate. Maybe the banker can tell me if my math is right; I was a lawyer therefore not good at math. I think it's reasonably close. What's the holdup? Why are we at 50%?
10:10 a.m.
Chief, Muskoday First Nation, Saskatchewan, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
There's quite a high number right now that are developmental. Last year or so there were 28 new entrants. They're all developmental at this point.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
“Developmental” means exactly what? Do they still have to develop their land code?
10:10 a.m.
Chief, Muskoday First Nation, Saskatchewan, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
Yes, they're developing their land code. They're going through the community process, meeting with their elders, meeting with their members, informing their members. It's the community process. That's what they're going through now leading to the vote.
Most of the 28 new entrants are in that process now, and there are maybe one or two just finishing from the last entrants. Most of them now have their land code vote dates for the fiscal year that we're in now. Then the six new entrants, as I mentioned earlier, will be just beginning the process.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
Would you anticipate—I forget what you just said—that the 28 or so should be operational soon?
10:10 a.m.
Chief, Muskoday First Nation, Saskatchewan, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
In this fiscal year.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
In this fiscal year. Okay.
To change the subject a little bit, one of the things that you made me interested in was when you talked about title. You're now able to get title insurance on reserve lands. That's interesting. It leads me down a path of what the state of the first nations land registry system is today.
I used to do a bit of real estate law, so I understand the system we have of land titles in Ontario. You have basically secured, guaranteed title. We convert it from the registry lands system to land titles, so most land is very clearly delineated now and defined.
What would be the state of land on reserve?
10:10 a.m.
Chief, Muskoday First Nation, Saskatchewan, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
Sorry...?
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
What would be the state of title on first nations reserves right now, across the country—if you can answer that?
10:10 a.m.
Chief, Muskoday First Nation, Saskatchewan, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
It's difficult. Now there are two land registries. There's the first nations land registry, and then there's the Indian Affairs or Indian Act land registry. I'm told that the Indian Act land registry is in somewhat of a shambles. On the First Nations Land Registry, all the documents or instruments are registered electronically. First nations instruments that are registered are not questioned; it's a repository for the instruments.
As far as title insurance is concerned, Muskoday, my first nation, is not engaged in that. I know that type of title insurance would be far more necessary for the Westbank First Nation, for example. That's likely where it was initiated. It surfaced with Chief Robert Louie and the Westbank First Nation.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
How much of an impediment would the lack of a good land registry system be with respect to access to capital? Do you think that has an effect at all?
10:15 a.m.
Chief, Muskoday First Nation, Saskatchewan, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
I think it has an effect on lenders. There's some comfort and security that interests are properly documented, and that they're actually registered interests within a recognized registry. I think that certainly gives comfort to bankers. It gives comfort to investors. That's certainly said without question.
10:15 a.m.
Vice-President, Financing and Consulting, Manitoba, and National Director, Aboriginal Banking, Business Development Bank of Canada
It makes it easier, for sure, but as the Business Development Bank of Canada, if there isn't, we have to figure out how we can still support entrepreneurs developing in those communities. We have lots of dealings in the Westbank area. It makes it easier. Again, you still have to work with first nations, understand their system, and respect the economic development they have set out for themselves.
If it's well defined, the land registry of course makes it easier. It shouldn't be a huge barrier for us to try to figure out how to help entrepreneurs as well.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Blake Richards
Thank you.
That finishes our second round. We'll move into our third and final round of questions now. First up in that round is Ms. Ashton, for five minutes.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Thank you very much.
We really appreciate all the feedback we have received today. I would say particularly the experience from you, Chief Bear and Mr. McCue, in terms of the on-the-ground reality that first nations face, the barriers they face, and the opportunities that are ahead of them.
In terms of a more general question, and I could ask this of all of you, how important is it that we get this right and that we get this right now? I know that in Manitoba and Saskatchewan the demographics are such that indigenous peoples are a significant part of our provinces population-wise, but whether you look at it where we are or across the country, it's aboriginal communities that are growing the fastest and that have the highest numbers of young people. Obviously, a lot of responsibility comes with that on behalf of those who make decisions, who can make or break these young people's futures.
I am wondering if you could speak to that sense of urgency, whether it's in terms of moving forward on the FNLMA, or in terms of investments in education and training, housing, or the treaty relationship, and how seriously we need to take these matters as parliamentarians, obviously with the government here as well. I am wondering if you could speak to that. Perhaps you would like to begin, Chief Bear.
10:15 a.m.
Chief, Muskoday First Nation, Saskatchewan, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
Thank you.
That's a very good question and an excellent point. It is critical and absolutely necessary, particularly at this time in our history and in the continued building of the nation of Canada, but more importantly, with first nations being an integral partner, participant, and beneficiary of Canada's building and securing of our nation.
We can no longer support and be silent about the hundreds of millions of dollars government spends on social assistance and corrections, the majority of which is to care for first nations people in the most negative context that one could believe and understand. We need to turn those hundreds of millions of dollars into opportunity, into recognition that first nations people are very integral in the founding and the building of Canada, our nation, and shouldn't be left marginally to waste away on the sidelines.
This is what we have to impress upon parliamentarians, committees such as yours, the different parties of government that sit in that big house, and Canadians all across this nation. This is where we have to make that most relevant when we're asked, “What can we do?” and “What's the urgency?” This is what we can do, and the urgency is now.
Thank you.
10:20 a.m.
Councillor, Chippewas of Georgina Island First Nation, Ontario, and Director, First Nations Lands Advisory Board
I agree with my friend's comments.
One initiative, too, that has been overlooked in dealing with first nations—you said there's a large contingent in areas of the west and northern Ontario—is the aspect of determining the membership. Something that is going to be required is determining who belongs to first nations. Although we have members within our community, that lineage is gradually going to stop. I know that Bill C-31 and Bill S-3 have tried to rectify that, but it seems to be diminishing, that aspect of who is a first nations citizen.
We, in our hearts, know who our first nations people are. If this continues, basically first nations are going to be assimilated or wiped out, other than self-identifying. That limits what we try to do within our community, because our initiatives are based on first nation membership, and the membership is determined by Canada. Gradually that's going to affect us very greatly in our small community.