Evidence of meeting #6 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Jonathan Genest-Jourdain NDP Manicouagan, QC
I would like to ask a few quick questions, still pertaining to the contaminated sites.
What progress has the department made in the cleanup of federal contaminated sites? How many sites have been decontaminated so far? How many sites are waiting to be cleaned up? Lastly, given the department's stated objective to clean up five sites by March 31, 2014, how many years will it take to have all federal sites cleaned up?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I'll have to provide you with the active list as a follow-up. The projects that are under way right now are at different stages, and it's going to take many years to complete all of them. There has been 200 years of development across the country using practices that wouldn't be tolerated today, and we have a lot of work ahead of us.
I think just in the north, the inventory was over 1,400 sites. Now some of these can be as small as a single oil tank under a garage somewhere, and some of them can be as big as the Giant Mine. There's an enormous range—old military sites, DEW Line radar stations, fuel dumps, old air strips, and so on and so on. There is an inventory. Right now, I think the number that we're very actively working on is about 80, but one of those is the Giant Mine, which as you know, is the largest contaminated site in the country.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
We'll turn now to Mr. Strahl for the next question.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you very much.
Thank you for being here.
I wanted to ask about a couple of specific items in the supplementary (B)s. It says here:
Funding to support the Commemoration Initiative under the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement which honours, educates, memorializes and/or pays tribute to former Indian Residential School students, their families and their communities
Can you talk about that initiative and give us some examples of projects that might have been funded under that initiative?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The program is part of the overall settlement agreement reached in 2006-07. The main features, as you know, are the common experience payment, the adjudication of serious claims, the creation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and so on. Part of it was the funding for commemoration projects, which are basically designed to make sure people don't forget what happened. There is a listing on the website of all the projects that were funded. They're mostly small, community-generated projects. In some cases it's as simple as a plaque on a building to say this was where this happened. In some cases there has actually been restoration of an old residential school that has been converted to another use. In some cases the projects have been events such as community gatherings and meetings of elders with young people.
A lot of it is cross-generational, in fact, to make sure the elders connect with the kids in the communities. I think we have over a hundred projects, all in, and I'd be happy to provide a list and some summaries of those.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
If I find that online, that's great.
I did notice as well that there was a reduction under travel. Can you explain? Were people doing more meetings by teleconference? How was that saving achieved?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We've been operating with a capped operating vote for some time. That was announced in one of the previous budgets, so we've been very frugal about travel for quite some time. We've been trying to limit travel to the important things like meeting community—for example, setting up for negotiations, inspections of water facilities, activity in communities where we need to be boots on the ground supervising construction projects and that sort of thing. Internally, we've pushed really, really hard to use video conferencing tools. We've been installing them everywhere we can to try to avoid people getting into airplanes and coming to meetings. We use video conferencing for training and so on.
So I think overall, depending on what benchmark you want to use, we've made a reduction of about 25%. Now some of the travel that you will see in our budget for travel is actually subsidizing the travel of former residential school students to attend the adjudication of their cases at hearings, and that counts in our travel budget. So I would caution you to dig a little deeper.
The $1.1 million is an initiative that came after the budget, where the government ratcheted down travel even further and froze $1.1 million in our department's budget to make sure it was not available for travel, and that's reflected in these supplementaries. So it essentially creates a situation where we're asking for fewer funds from Parliament because we know we're not going to spend that $1.1 million.
Conservative
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
I also want to ask about the site work for the Canadian High Arctic Research Station.
Could you give us an update on that project and maybe some indication of where that's at? It's obviously a priority for our government, but it's a specific line item here, so perhaps you can just give us an update on that.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The project, as I'm sure members are familiar with, was announced some time ago. We've gone through the issues of its mandate, science priorities, location, which community it should be in, and even what site within the community it should be in—all in very close consultation with the community.
The short answer is, we're on time and on budget. The slightly longer answer is, we're now in the pre-construction phase, mobilizing materials, getting the site ready, doing the fine tuning of the design work. There will be shovels in the ground next summer, all aiming for an opening in 2017.
In parallel with that, we're working on the science program of which the station will be the hub. We're hiring a chief scientist and we're working with other departments on science priorities in the north.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
We'll turn now to Ms. Jones, for the next round of questions.
Liberal
Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL
Thank you.
Can you tell us where the research station is going to be based? I'm not really sure. Maybe others know.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
It will be in Cambridge Bay, Nunavut, more or less halfway across the Northwest Passage. It was chosen because a short airplane ride in a circle from that station reaches the largest number of ecosystems and geological areas. It's ideal for fieldwork.
Liberal
Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL
That’s good.
Earlier in your response, you talked about money for skills training in first nations communities. In my riding, they've already made a transition to more active case management and employment counselling for aboriginal people who seek funding for training, and it's working very well.
As with anything, there will always be some hiccups, but one of the concerns continuously expressed to me is still the lack of funding. They tend to run a wait-list, especially on skills training that extends beyond the 12-month period, if they're going into two-year or three-year training programs.
In that light, has any assessment been done on particular areas that have made the transition and are probably experiencing some shortages in meeting those training needs?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
It's a very good question. This is an example, like other areas—education, post-secondary, housing and others—where there are pockets of real excellence out there in first nations communities. Strong communities, strong leaders are doing all kinds of things and delivering great services, and there are challenges to make that available to the largest number of communities possible.
One of the key features of getting the income assistance reform designed and approved was to point to examples that show the way for other communities. The minister alluded to the role that Mi'kmaq communities have played in education as a possible signpost of what other communities could follow.
I don't know the specifics of what you are referring to, but I can say that if members of Parliament have any feedback whatsoever on specific communities and specific cases, we'd like to hear it so that we can fine-tune the program as it goes ahead.
The underlying premise is to try to provide the same kinds of services in helping people get off income assistance that would be available to somebody down the road off-reserve
Liberal
Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL
Yes. I guess my question really stems from the fact that we have a lot of industry going on and that most of those industry agreements are with aboriginal first nations. There are requirements for employment and training and so on. Because of that, I guess, you get more buy-in. You get a lot more marketing of what the programs are, so the list gets a little longer for those who want to do it, but I'd be happy to talk to you about that.
The other thing is, could you provide us a list of those groups right now that have transitioned to that model so we could also consult with some of them and find out how it's working? If there is any timetable in place to bring that to the other aboriginal self-governments and aboriginal groups, you could probably provide that to us as well.
My other question is with regard to the comment, I guess, that was made by AFN National Chief Shawn Atleo. He issued an open letter and was basically telling the government that the current federal proposal for the bill for first nations education was not acceptable. He also outlined the absolute need for funding guarantees for first nations children to learn in a safe and secure environment, which we've talked a lot about this morning in this committee.
What is the plan right now to engage with Chief Atleo and with others to resolve the concerns they have and to work with them with regard to this bill?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Well, I think the minister spoke to it a fair bit. We're trying to be of assistance to him in this. It's essentially a political process. There are 44 aboriginal political organizations. They have different views on this initiative. There are 79 tribal councils and there are 630 chiefs.
The decision on how much consensus is enough is a political one that the minister will have to make and that you'll have to make as members of Parliament. There are only 308 people in the country who can actually create the first nations education act: they're the members of Parliament. You'll have to make that judgment on the legislation at some point.
The minister's constant refrain—and I entirely agree with it and support it—is that funding should accompany the implementation of that legislation. It should not replace it or substitute for it. A very clear message from the Auditor General and the national panel is that we need the accountabilities and the rigour the legislation would bring. We will certainly be helping the minister make a case for funding for implementation of the legislation.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
We'll turn now to Mr. Strahl for the next questions.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you very much.
Another item in the supplementary (B)s that I'd like some clarification on is funding for out-of-court settlements. Can you perhaps indicate why that $61 million wasn't in the main estimates? Why is it here? Does this happen routinely? Can you explain? Is this as a result of a specific case? Why is that amount there?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Perhaps the easier question is, why does it show up in the supplementaries?
We are constantly being sued. There's a lot of litigation against the crown. It's cheap and easy to file a statement of claim in court. It costs virtually nothing to file a statement of claim against the crown. Sometimes people are serious. Sometimes they're just trying to trigger a negotiation of some sort. It's very hard to provision against that.
When we do get advice from our lawyers to settle and a settlement is possible, then we go and get the resources from Treasury Board for the settlement. It's almost always briefed in through supplementary estimates. Some of them can be quite large. Our settlement with the James Bay Cree was over a billion dollars. In other cases, they might be very small amounts. I think I gave in a previous answer the four cases that are covered by this $60 million.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
Excellent.
There's also some funding that is being reprofiled for the registration of applicants for Indian status as a result of the Gender Equity in Indian Registration Act. Can you explain why it was delayed from 2012-13 to 2013-14? Is there going to be a need for additional reprofiling or should this take care of that?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Some members of this committee will remember that when the bill went through we had to provide our best forecast of how many people would apply and at what pace they would come in. We were expecting, based on our sort of demographic analysis—the best we could do—about 45,000 applicants. We think that's probably still about right, but we've only received 39,000 to date.
We are processing them very rapidly. Almost all of those cases have been processed, and status has been given to about 35,000 people.
We simply didn't need the money in the previous year. We've slid it into this year. We'll just continue as people apply under the act.
At some point, probably everybody who's eligible, who fits the criteria of that legislation, will have applied. People who were well aware of the situation probably were in the first batch, but there will probably be small numbers in future years.