Evidence of meeting #137 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Acting Director General, Education, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes. I was getting to that.
We have committed—and I believe this was in the record of a discussion our deputy had at the public accounts committee—to follow up on a scheduled basis, very much as you're saying, to report on how we are progressing and how our results metrics are evolving through our co-developed strategies going forward.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
When can the committee expect to have access to that follow-up?
Acting Director General, Education, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I think we can provide that precision as a follow-up item to today's conversation, Mr. Blaney.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
My next questions are for Ms. Ferland.
If I understood correctly, you are responsible for the implementation of regional infrastructure projects at Indigenous Services Canada. We only have one minute left and I am not sure you will have time to answer me, but I'm trying to obtain some figures that seem very pertinent for the report we will be preparing.
My first question is the following: how much does the federal government, through your department, invest in infrastructure and training in communities?
This is my second question: out of the total amount invested in infrastructure, how much is invested in drinking water treatment systems? Mr. Vandal referred to this earlier. This is an important concern, both in terms of infrastructure and training.
My third question is the following: can you tell us how many indigenous drinking water treatment system operators there are in communities today in Canada?
Director General, Regional Infrastructure Branch, Regional Operations Sector, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
Thank you for those three questions.
Regarding the number of indigenous operators, I'll have to get back to you on that.
Director General, Regional Infrastructure Branch, Regional Operations Sector, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
With respect to infrastructure, 3,565 projects are under way at this time, and 2,000 have been completed. Some 1,057 projects have training or capacity reinforcement components; 55 of these have to do with drinking water treatment, 619 concern housing and real estate, 5 involve education, and 378 involve other types of infrastructure.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
Thank you. A project, however, may last several years. What is your annual budget for infrastructure and drinking water treatment systems? If you do not have that answer today, you may send it to the committee later.
I'll ask you one last question to make sure that you have an opportunity to get back to us later. How many communities do not have potable water at this time, and what measures have been put in place to put an end to the need for boil-water advisories?
Liberal
Director General, Regional Infrastructure Branch, Regional Operations Sector, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
Absolutely.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
I'd like to follow up on my colleague MP Jolibois' earlier question about the Attorney General's office and the lack of data.
Is this new?
Assistant Auditor General, Performance Audit, Office of the Auditor General
No, this isn't new.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
This has never been done before essentially. I would ask Adrian to come back to the table because he'll be following up on this. Sorry for the musical chairs constantly back and forth.
When I look at the national outcome framework—to follow up on where others were going—and that reporting to Parliament, that is new, isn't it?
Adrian.
Acting Director General, Education, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The way we are approaching mutual accountability is absolutely new. The things that we are trying to discuss in terms of results, measurement items, graduation being one of them, are not necessarily new. We have been trying to use that as our primary metric for quite some time.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
But the approach you're taking now, which you're hopeful is going to bring about the outcome where we are going to have realistic numbers and a better understanding of those....
For me, how do we move forward if we don't know where we've been or where we are? I think the Auditor General's office was alluding to this, that they're hopeful that this is finally going to bring us to a place....
I see you nodding your head, Jerome, that you are hopeful that by having this data it will bring us to a greater understanding of how we move forward to ensure that we will have the outcomes that I think everybody around this table wants to see for indigenous peoples.
Acting Director General, Education, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Absolutely.
As I think was already mentioned in today's conversation, there is a mosaic of results out there. We are seeing tremendous success in many first nation education systems. Southeast Collegiate was mentioned today. The Mi'kmaq in Nova Scotia have extremely strong education results.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
And it's 100% community, indigenous led and driven.
Acting Director General, Education, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes.
We need to be able to tell parliamentarians how things are evolving and Canadians how things are involving. As I said before, one of the key parts is first nation leaders and communities themselves want to make sure everyone knows how success is being manifested on the ground. We are integrating that joint interest in our collaborative discussions.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you.
I apologize, I don't like to cut you off, but I don't have much time.
Mr. Hewitt, also the research work that you're doing now, this is new. I actually have two grants in my riding for the Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte. One is exploring the meaning of mutually respectful relationships and the engagement of indigenous knowledge in research practices, and the second one is decolonizing food systems as the root of indigenous cultural resurgence. Once again, taking into account indigenous traditional knowledge is vital research for us to take to understand where we come from, where indigenous peoples come from, so that we can then move forward once again as a society.
President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council
That is absolutely true; it is new. As agencies, we've always funded what we would call indigenous research. For example, the CIHR has set a floor of 4.6% of its funding to support indigenous research. SSHRC spends every year—year in, year out—about 10% to 12% of all of its funding on indigenous research. That's been going on for some time. What's new is the way we now approach this to say that we are interested now in talking to our communities, in funding research that is done by, and sometimes with, but definitely for indigenous communities. If you're a researcher in Canada and you say you're doing indigenous research but you don't meet that bar, then we're not going to fund you. That is a big change from the past. We are by no means done yet. We continue to learn at every meeting, at every opportunity, in every discussion. When we do wrap up, we'll have a series of recommendations that will have been generated by our partners through this process.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Once again, going back to the Auditor General's office, is it reasonable, given that this is new and that a lot of what we're trying to accomplish here is new, that it's going to take some time for it to bear fruit and that it isn't going to be something that we're going to judge the results of—which I think you alluded to earlier in one of your answers—in one year? It's going to take a number of years to judge the results.
Assistant Auditor General, Performance Audit, Office of the Auditor General
Madam Chair, I think in the larger context, yes, it's going to take some time to judge the results. In the shorter term, I think what we would be looking for if we were to conduct another audit would be sustained management attention to following through on the actions the departments have stated here today that they have undertaken. Without that sustained management attention, it's likely that the progress I am optimistic will be made won't occur. I would be looking for that going forward.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
Thank you.
That concludes our five-minute round. Typically we have only one questioner at the three-minute round. Committee members, do you wish to have the rest of the time in three-minute rounds or go back to the seven-minute round? Do you want threes, fast questions?