Evidence of meeting #141 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
When you look at land managers, for those communities that are remote, with no road access, how many managers are indigenous? Do we still have to bring people up from the south?
Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
With regard to Saskatchewan aboriginal lands technicians, we had a conference just a couple of weeks ago in Saskatoon. We invited all 74 first nations: land managers, technicians, chiefs, councillors and anybody involved with lands and resources in their communities. All of them, every one of them, were first nations people. The only non-indigenous folks we saw were from Indigenous Services Canada.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
That's great.
Tell me what your graduation rate is in Saskatchewan on reserves.
Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
If memory serves me, it's at 67%, I believe. It's less than the dominant society number, but it's a lot better than it was when I graduated from high school in 1988. I was one of six high school graduates in my whole community. Nowadays, if you go back to Pelican Narrows, you'll see 25 or 30 graduates come June. We've had as many as 40 in certain years. Yes, the graduation rates are improving. They could still be better.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
Melanie, can I ask how many courses of math and physics there are on reserves in northern Ontario? Those are courses that are fundamental to becoming an engineer.
Executive Director, Ontario First Nations Technical Services Corporation
Personally, I know of only one high school on reserve, and I don't believe it's funded as a high school. It's on the Wikwemikong unceded Indian reserve that's located on Manitoulin Island. I believe they do have some fundamental programs in math and physics.
But again, with the way the school system is set up, your high school is pretty well predetermined before you even get in the front door when you're embarking on your high school journey. Most of the children in Ontario are sent off reserve for high school. Not only are they dealing with their educational journey, but they also have to deal with culture shock and racism. They have to deal with a number of things.
They have access to the same programs that every other Canadian has access to, but do they have that same opportunity? I do not believe so.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
The high school where kids would have to go is a long way from a place such as Pikangikum or up at James Bay.
Executive Director, Ontario First Nations Technical Services Corporation
Yes.
Liberal
Executive Director, Ontario First Nations Technical Services Corporation
Yes, and from what I understand, at one of the high schools—I believe it was in Attawapiskat—students would have to change classes and walk through the -30°C or -40°C weather to different trailers to change classes. It wasn't a great environment for them to be in. Also, I believe there was a fuel spill in the school. I don't know if it was cleaned up.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
It's very difficult.
How many females—what percentage—are in your program?
Executive Director, Ontario First Nations Technical Services Corporation
In my program? Do you mean through the Ontario First Nations Technical Services Corporation?
Executive Director, Ontario First Nations Technical Services Corporation
We have one female indigenous engineer working for us right now, but we have two female engineers working on our team.
Engineers are hard to recruit, but it's also difficult to get them to understand the differences working with the first nations community and the protocols that come in place depending on the community you're entering. Some are patrilineal; some are matrilineal. It's understanding the communities, but the numbers aren't very high in having indigenous females in the technical services careers.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
I would imagine there are very few.
I think I've used up all of your time, Mike. Thank you.
We'll move on to the five-minute round with MP Webber.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
Madame Chair, I appreciate that.
Thank you for coming here today. I appreciate it.
It's my first time at the Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. I'm honoured to be here. I usually sit on the health committee. I also had the honour of serving as the aboriginal relations minister in Alberta for a number of years early in the 2010s and learned a lot about the first nation communities in Alberta. I just want to say that it was an enlightening experience. It was life-changing for me; it really was. The people in the communities whom I served were just wonderful to me, and I continue to have good friends in the first nations communities in Alberta.
Theodore Johnny, I just want to focus on your career. You're, of course, a professional land manager. You talked about it in your presentation. You've been at it for about seven years now. Where did you get your training?
Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
I got it through NALMA. I took the professional land management certification program in 2015, and in 2016 the indigenous peoples resource management program through the University of Saskatchewan.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
Did you have to leave your community in order to go?
Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
Definitely. There's no university back in my home community.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
Exactly. Are you the only professional land manager managing your area of 45 reserves in your community?
Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
Within Peter Ballantyne, we have almost 50 reserves and eight different communities. I'll just name them quickly: Southend, Kinoosao, Denare Beach, Sturgeon Landing, Kiskaciwan, Pelican Narrows, Deschambault Lake, and Sandy Bay.
Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
It's over 11,000.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
You talked about the fact that you're having difficulty finding others to come and take your place once you train someone because of lack of funding but also lack of job security. I find that hard to understand, because of course it's such a large area, and there's a lot of work to be done. Why do you say that job security is not there? Is it because of the lack of funding?
Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
Well, that's part of it, because if my first nation pools its funding for other things, then I am dealt a $2,000 annual budget from Indigenous Services Canada, and that is basically just enough to keep the heat on. That doesn't pay for salaries, travel to all the communities and what have you.
Yes, with regard to job security, a lot of it also has to do with the fact that, just as in white society, if you have mayors and councils, or if you have provincial elections or federal elections, they all have consequences. What happens when there is a new government in town? They wipe the slate clean, and that happens in a lot of our first nations communities as well. If you have somebody in that capacity who is from a different clan, for example, and then a new clan takes over, basically they're in charge of the whole first nation. They decide who gets the jobs, who gets the positions and what have you.
You know, I am only there at the pleasure of the chief and council, and if they don't like me for whatever reason, I could be gone after the next election, and with me the capacity. Indigenous Services Canada will fund a position only if there is a certified land manager in that position. If there isn't, it goes to heck in a handbasket.
I'll give you one example. Back home, in one of the first nations—I won't name it—my friend was employed as a professional certified land manager. A new chief and council came in and he was gone. He waited until the next election, when some other people were back in office, and he got his job back. In the meantime, they had lost several years of capacity-building and improvement and whatnot.
The more land managers are certified in each community, the better, even if they're not working specifically in that capacity, because a lot of times you need the resources to fund those positions. If the money is not there, you're looking at one member of staff. Some communities have six or seven, and I commend them. Most of us are all by our lonesome in the office.