Evidence of meeting #146 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Yes, of course. I'm speaking to you as the rights holder for the Mi'kmaw people. You have someone living in Toronto or in Halifax who's not living in a community. Who should be the one providing the service?
Chief Paul J. Prosper
We believe, as leadership, that we have jurisdiction not only within the confines of our respective communities but throughout our traditional territory, which would be inclusive of “off-reserve” members. We assume that jurisdiction and control over them.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
If that were the case, what would be the legislative process that you would go through with your community? You have a large community that moves over a number of provinces. Do you have a legislative process, so that you would be able to enact laws in order to breathe life into managing those services for community members or the people who are your citizens?
Chief Paul J. Prosper
Yes, collectively within Nova Scotia we have the assembly, but we also have a variety of governance structures that support it. One of those structures involves what is referred to as a made in Nova Scotia process, where we're in negotiations with the federal and provincial governments over rights-related issues. This is governed through a framework agreement, and within that framework agreement, child welfare is one of the issues.
Certainly with legislation of this nature, this would expedite that process in terms of our coming up with laws over our respective membership, and certainly we've made inroads to do that in areas such as moose management and things of that nature, in terms of filling the legislative void.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
I'm understanding that this could strengthen the self-government and self-determination of the Mi'kmaw people.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
That's very good.
Mr. Smith, I want to talk about customary adoption. Obviously, indigenous people used to practise a lot of customary adoption. Many people in the southern parts of Canada do not practise this, because it's very difficult to obtain this through the courts. It's not mentioned in any Canadian law. If it were mentioned in this law, would that expedite processes with Inuit peoples who still practise customary adoption?
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, Inuvialuit Regional Corporation
In reality we still practise custom law. If your grandparent wants one of your children's children, then they take them. It's agreed upon, because they feel they have the better skill in life at that time to give them an adequate upbringing. I'm one of those children, just to let you know.
Custom law is recognized within my government's area, but they do not practise it, so we force it on them on occasion.
Liberal
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, Inuvialuit Regional Corporation
We force it on the government. We hope we never have to go to the courts, but when we have to stress that a certain family wants to practise custom law, that's where we have to have a discussion rather than the GNWT, the government of my area, just exercising that process with that family.
It exists. It's just not being properly implemented.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
I have a few more question related to courts.
Ms. Cox, you mentioned that you have to go through the court system. Would this bill prevent the Mi'kmaw people or the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation or peoples from setting up their own court system in relation to child and family services if you pass legislation saying that this is the process. They're not going to use the courts, but they're going to set up their own type of tribunal to decide these matters among themselves.
Barrister and Solicitor and Project Lead, Enhanced Child Family Initiative, Kwilmu'kw Maw-klusuaqn
No. Bill C-92 would conceivably give you the ability to set up that structure for yourself, which would include the courts, but there is going to be a gap between what we have now and what we have whenever you can get the resources and get your laws and other things in place. We have to look at that interim period of time. I make reference to some level of court being identified in the legislation to work with Bill C-92 because there is going to be a gap. Some communities are not going to be able to come forward and get their laws in place as fast as other communities. Some you're going to see do it really quickly, because they already have them, pretty much. They're just waiting for the recognition.
I don't see anything in Bill C-92 that will prohibit.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Mr. Smith, children who are too old...we talked a bit about prenatal care. It was mentioned a bit earlier in some of the questioning. Should we have some mention of “up to age 21”? I know that INAC or Indigenous Services often considers an education up to age 21. Should there be some provision for people who are between 18 and 21 to continue to be well set up to continue to succeed as an adult in that crucial time period?
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, Inuvialuit Regional Corporation
The answer is yes. A secondary response is that you can't have a blanket process for it, I would think, because every individual's case is going to be different. You have to recognize that there needs to be a potential process to assist those going into that transition period, because all you might be doing is kicking that can down the road for three more years and the situation remains the same. If the child is mentally challenged or something like that, they're going to need ongoing support. You can't just abandon them because they've hit a certain age.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
We move questioning now to the five-minute rounds. We're being generous. We're over the one-hour period because we have a robust panel. I hope it's working out for your personal schedules.
I'm going to suggest perhaps another two questioners, if I have agreement, five minutes each, and then we wrap up.
MP Kevin Waugh.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Thank you, Madam Chair.
You mentioned that this wasn't co-drafted. Does that mean there really wasn't any discussion on the funding situation, or was there previously?
Maybe, Ms. Cox, you could pick up on that.
Barrister and Solicitor and Project Lead, Enhanced Child Family Initiative, Kwilmu'kw Maw-klusuaqn
There was discussion, because there was all kinds of information sought by the government through their various engagement sessions, which they list. At every one of them—although I wasn't at all of them—it was mentioned. Everybody has talked about funding. It's been front and centre, because funding is the main concern that all first nations communities have.
Did we mention that we wanted funding in the bill? Absolutely.
When we saw the draft bill the week before, absolutely we asked to have funding inserted. It wasn't inserted.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
We've heard some discussions off reserve. How does that affect your people living in communities off reserve, in terms of this bill?
Chief Paul J. Prosper
From a leadership and the assembly's perspective, they're our community members regardless of where they live. They don't stop being Mi'kmaq by virtue of leaving the boundaries of the reserve. As mentioned earlier, we would look to work towards providing some jurisdiction with respect to our membership off reserve. Obviously, that will involve discussions with our counterpart, the Province of Nova Scotia, but also from an organizational perspective, with various organizations that serve urban areas and things of that nature.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Do you have the capacity to do that? Some regions in this country can't. They simply don't have the capacity.
Chief Paul J. Prosper
There's an intimate link between jurisdiction and funding, subject to what was mentioned before. As we've learned from the provincial experience, it's one thing to have legislation; it's another thing to implement it. The key there is capacity and having the appropriate funds and support and infrastructure to breathe life into the laws that are developed.
That's the caveat I would add to that.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
This bill has gone through two ministers. It's gone through quite a bit from day one. You've had some recommendations. Do you have any others?
The Mi'kmaq are really organized. I don't mind saying that. I've looked at some other regions. Ms. Cox, you said you were from Saskatchewan at one time. We have different issues from what you have in Nova Scotia, as you know. What I'm seeing here with this bill, and it does concern me, is that there are some regions that are very capable of picking this bill up and immediately hitting the ground. There are also some regions, maybe the majority in this country, that will be further behind with this bill.
How would you fit in with that?
Chief Paul J. Prosper
In terms of recognition of the difference nationally, one of the things we stress within our submissions is relationship building. There were a number of pivotal things within the history of the Mi'kmaq, not only within the Atlantic but also within the context of Nova Scotia, that facilitated a relationship on a tripartite basis with the federal, provincial and Mi'kmaw governments that we were able to carry on forward in a variety of areas. There's been a lot of water under the bridge. We were subject to litigation, like other people. We were successful in various court actions. We're engaged in a tripartite negotiation process, and obviously, our treaties of peace and friendship stress that idea of coming together and working out differences.
I only put that forward as an example for what it is, and I certainly hope that our counterparts throughout the rest of the country can work towards resolving differences for the benefit of their future generations as well.
Liberal