Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 14th, 2019

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Has it increased or decreased?

[Daniel Watson]

It's been roughly similar over the last few years, but it has increased over time.

[Jean-François Tremblay]

I think it's increasing on the executive side a bit, which is encouraging. It varies from place to place. What we're trying to do now is to have a targeted approach.

What I mean is that if I look at my regions in Ontario, it's 50%, so it's significant. Other regions are lower, or other sectors are lower. I think the next step for us is to look at the numbers and say, what is the strategy? Why are we doing better in some places than others?

One of the key points is on the executive functions, having more assistant deputy ministers for our first nations, Inuit and Métis, as well as directors general and directors. That is key. We have been targeting that over the last few years with some success.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

What's the number of employees in the region versus Ottawa? Have you seen a decrease or an increase over the last few years?

For instance, there's an awful lot of indigenous people in Manitoba, but in past governments, they were more centralizing, bringing things to Ottawa.

[Jean-François Tremblay]

The majority of my employees are in regions. Given the division of labour, if you want, between both of us, the majority of my employees are in regions. That is probably—I don't have the exact numbers—close to two-thirds, so that's quite significant.

My expectation is that it's going to grow unless we transfer the services to first nations, Inuit and Métis.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

We have the official languages, English and French, with both of your departments.

Are there programs to encourage people to speak indigenous languages?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

Unfortunately, there are no programs encouraging people to speak indigenous languages at the office per se. We encourage our indigenous employees who work with indigenous communities to speak their own language. We have that, and we see that.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Is there an incentive program where they receive funds if they speak an indigenous language, or does it count towards promotion, towards executive positions or other positions within the federal civil service?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

We have programs where we do a recruitment process that is targeted to indigenous people.

We don't necessarily link—

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

If, for instance, someone is wanting to go into a position in the federal civil service right now, you have to be BBB or exempt or whatever.

What happens if you speak just English and an indigenous language?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

I cannot—

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Will you be able to be promoted into that position?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

I cannot have an exemption from the official languages policy.

What we have been trying to do and to risk-manage is to hire those people and send them on French training, to make sure that in two years they will meet the requirements. We do our best, but we have legal obligations under the official languages policy.

It's easier in regions. In regions that are not necessarily bilingual, they can move to EX positions, but in headquarters, it's one of the challenges we face. It's the application of official languages.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Questioning moves now to MP Cathy McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Grondin, we asked everyone about their FTEs. You said yours had been stable.

How many people work with you supporting Crown-indigenous relations and Indigenous Services?

[Suzanne Grondin]

I would say that there are around 60 legal counsels plus support staff, so around 80 FTEs, including our original office in Vancouver.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Are all legal issues with the department filtered through you?

[Suzanne Grondin]

Most of them. We also have people in regional offices, so sometimes we have to deal with them because the issue is related more to the region.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Are you projecting that the vast majority of your workload will be with Crown-indigenous relations or Indigenous Services?

[Suzanne Grondin]

It's hard to say, because during the last year I would say it was a transition period. When we calculate the time that we spend on a file, not everything has been done, so it's hard for me to have an exact response because the numbers are not quite finalized yet.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I understand the former attorney general changed some of the philosophy around legal issues. To what degree is that impacting what you do and how you do it?

[Suzanne Grondin]

It takes time because for some of them the issues are major. You may be referring to the new directive on litigation. It takes time because we have to change the approach for the files that are already within the system.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Is it through your department that you advised in terms of how to deal with the day scholar residential school payout?

[Suzanne Grondin]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

The government recently determined that they would...residential schools.... They came to an agreement, and it's your department that has been working with...and advising how that particular piece of litigation will be dealt with—the day school scholar.