Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 16th, 2019

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

He is more than welcome to make a comment, but if it's a question then I expect to be able to answer it. If he wants to use his time putting out his point of view, he's welcome to do that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Thank you.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Why are these two pieces in this particular bill?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

This is about both aspects of achieving certainty in a good way and being able to make sure we will have the science with which to take decisions going forward. That's the purpose of the moratorium. It's for us to work together—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

What are the conditions to remove the moratorium?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

At the moment we are working with all our partners to be able to make sure we are asking the right questions around climate change, around the safety of drilling and about spill cleanup. How do we make sure—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Wouldn't you be better off allowing the territories to make those decisions?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The territories are very much a part of this in the kinds of working groups that are now working on the questions to ask: the governance, how we go forward in the eastern and western Arctic to make sure we will be able to clean up a spill and we will be able to determine where it's safe to drill. How do we take these decisions based on all this open water, storms and all these things that were not an issue before and need to be studied now. Then, at the end of the five years, we will be able to take a decision together on if we have sufficient science to be able to lift the moratorium.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I'll save the rest of my time.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

We are moving on again to MP McLeod.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Minister, the previous speaker talked about the Canadian Petroleum Resources Act and the moratorium. I think people have to know that there was a real interest in having a review of the conditions in the Beaufort Sea before going forward.

When I visit the small communities of Paulatuk, Ulukhaktok, Sachs Harbour and Tuktoyaktuk, I talk to a lot of people who are very traditional in lifestyle. They still depend a lot on the ocean, on fishing, hunting and all those things to make a living and supplement their incomes.

A lot of people want to see employment from the jobs that oil and gas bring. At the same time, they want to do it in a strategic way. Having the science-based review that's taking place right now with the Government of Northwest Territories, the federal government and the Inuvialuit is the right move. It will continue without interruption. The oil companies are all saying—and we've heard from them—that the oil prices are not right. They're not good right now, but they don't want to give up their licences until things change and until exploration can be done down the road.

That allowance has been made, and I think that's really a good move to ensure that everybody is on the right page. We need to have this piece of legislation. It is giving comfort to the indigenous governments that we are going to move away from the super-board concept and bring other regulatory items onto the table that will make the whole process more efficient. That is also going to be well received.

Some of these are very simple. The ability to maintain a quorum is a big important piece of it, and you'd think it would be automatic. Why do we need to put it into the system? We do because it was not in there the last time. I worked with boards where they couldn't operate, couldn't do a review, because they didn't have the numbers because the government of the day didn't make the appointments. We had boards waiting for months and that wasn't good. I think the three key pieces are very important.

Is intervenor funding going to be part of the support network? For this whole process to work well we need that in place. Can you speak to that?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you for raising both of those points, particularly the fact that indigenous rights are also rights to hunting and fishing. The moratorium is allowing us to make sure that those hunting and fishing rights are protected in any decision that would be taken together.

Also, you raised the point of freezing the terms of the licences, which again industry has welcomed. With the investments they've made, they still will maintain those licences when the moratorium is lifted.

Absolutely, there is funding for participants.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

As the member of Parliament for the Northwest Territories, I have many discussions with different organizations and governments in my riding. I hear a lot from industry regarding certainty. When we talk about certainty, if we're going to improve the economy we need to have a number of things.

First of all, we need more infrastructure. We're a long way from providing it. We need to lower the cost. Industry has told us over and over that it can't do business in the north when it costs three times as much as in the rest of Canada. We need roads. We need bigger airports. We need all kinds of transportation links. We need better communications.

They also talk about certainty in terms of land claims and self-governance, and that has to move forward. That is something where we're really taking a big step. At the end of the last government, there were zero discussions going on.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Unfortunately, there's no time for an answer. That took you to five minutes. Perhaps we may have time for a little bit more.

MP Waugh.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I'll just pick up, if you don't mind, Madam Chair, from the first seven minutes. MP Robillard asked how companies will work with the four boards instead of one.

This is an issue we're going to see, moving forward. You didn't really answer it, so I'm going to ask that question again. With the bureaucracy around it, how will companies now work with the four boards instead of one?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Because it ended up in court so quickly, their four boards are working right now. It never went to the fusion into one board. They've been carrying on in that way because of the injunction. It was what the communities felt was working best for them, having local knowledge of their region.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Tuktoyaktuk will be here later this morning. They're certainly against the moratorium, as you know. The road to Tuk was built under the former Conservative government. It has helped them sell T-shirts and trinkets, but it hasn't helped their young people in that community stay and prosper.

I want to ask your thoughts about this. They were pretty vocal when they came to committee. They appreciate the road very much, but at the same time the moratorium has put a stop to their community's chance for everyone to enjoy some wealth, some employment.

They will be here later this morning.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thanks for that. If you listened to what Mr. McLeod had to say, there was nothing happening there on oil and gas. There were no jobs.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

There aren't now. The moratorium stopped them.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

There hadn't been for five years and now we are going to be able to do it safely.

Also, I think it's very exciting in terms of the vision that Nellie Cournoyea has for the region, the idea of tourism and the kind of infrastructure that MP McLeod talked about, of making sure that there are hotels and places for people to hook up their trailers. This is a really exciting opportunity.

What we heard from the mining association, in all of the consultations on the northern and Arctic policy framework, is that not only do they need infrastructure, but they need training so that those young people can have jobs building these things. That, I think, is extraordinarily exciting.

At the same, with the ecotourism, indigenous tourism, those young people who want to be confident on the land and the water and the ice have this opportunity to share their knowledge with all Canadians in the north. This is a huge opportunity, and I think there is hope and real excitement about the future as I sit and talk to the young people in all of those regions.

There is the Dechinta university in Yellowknife, where the kids are learning in outdoor classrooms. This is such an opportunity.

I hope that you, as a committee, will make sure you eventually get up there to promote the beauty of the north, and the hope and the enthusiasm of some of those young people who want to be part of their governments, want to grow up to be public servants, want to be able to run their health systems and feed the teachers and all of that.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

With all due respect, Minister, it's about a one-day trip, 22 hours, from Edmonton to the new highway to Tuktoyaktuk. I don't know what the average salary is in tourism up there, but you can see that it's much lower than if we lifted the moratorium and had....

What has your government done infrastructure-wise up there, if you don't mind me asking? I know what the former government has done with the road, with the tourism. What has your government done for Tuktoyaktuk?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Cathy McLeod]

Unfortunately, you have about 15 seconds for a response.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I think what we're seeing now is that the effects of climate change are serious.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Anything....

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

We are doing lots, from housing to things like developing a plan for tourism, being able to work with the communities to go forward is an exciting time.

However, even that road is now in trouble because of climate change. We're climate change deniers. To now have sensors in that road to measure and read in real time what's happening to that permafrost.... We need to take climate change very seriously. It's really upsetting that we are 10 years behind.