Evidence of meeting #151 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-88.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to thank all our witnesses for their testimony.
My questions will be in French, naturally.
My first question is for Mayor Gruben.
The main element of Bill C-88 repeals the provisions of Bill C-15 that deal with restructuring the boards and aims to resolve the problem that the Tlicho government and Sahtu Secretariat Inc. brought before the Government of the Northwest Territories.
Do you think the existing four-board structure is efficient and effective?
Mayor, Hamlet of Tuktoyaktuk
I agree with the dissolving and the making of the four boards. We don't think we agree with the super-board.
I'm not politically a lawyer or anything.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
The repeal of the unconstitutional provisions on the board restructuring is the main aspect of Bill C-88.
However, the bill makes other changes to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. These changes reflect some of the provisions of the previous government's Bill C-15, which couldn't enter into force because of the injunction.
Do you think it's likely that these provisions will make the boards operate more efficiently and effectively?
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
It seems like passing this bill would resolve the ongoing disputes over the Mackenzie Valley resource management boards.
Do you think that this would provide companies with greater legal security, in terms of the process for their development proposals?
Mayor, Hamlet of Tuktoyaktuk
As I said before, the more development we get up there...and I hope more royalties are shared equally like they do with the provinces, for our part of the north.
Liberal
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Thank you, and finally, somebody is willing to share with me.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
I had a quick question to get the mayor and Jackie to clarify. In your comments earlier when you made your opening comments, you indicated that you had a discussion with the premier and that it brought you to the point where you support the bill. We heard this morning from a number of my colleagues across the way that quoted you and quoted the premier. Maybe you could just make that part of it clear again.
Mayor, Hamlet of Tuktoyaktuk
When I first started getting involved and I got invited to speak about Bill C-88, I did a lot of research on it and I followed a lot of comments. I just didn't want this to be seen again as another case of Ottawa throwing in this moratorium and showing us what to do—do as I say, you know. That's what I didn't like. I thought we were going to be...but there was no negotiation. You just do this. Ottawa says if you do this, you do that. That's what I thought we were going to be doing here.
Then, in further consultation with our good friend Premier Bob and other colleagues, it seems like everybody is agreeing with it. The more I read into it.... I will agree to it as long as we have some of these other conditions that are being negotiated.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
I think a point was raised earlier that decisions for the north have to be made in the north, and the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act allows that to happen, and had the jurisdiction, as Jackie and I both experienced. We didn't get the jurisdiction for the Beaufort Sea or the Norman Wells oil fields, for that matter. It didn't fall under the board, which allowed a government to step in and make changes, which were in land claim agreements, to create a super-board. Then with the moratorium, I think you've been pretty clear that you're not happy and a lot of people in the north are not happy that the moratorium came forward with such short notice.
The one thing that is puzzling is the amount of money that was being spent in the Beaufort Delta over the five years. I went back and looked. There was only $7 million from 2011-15. In 2011, the program got cancelled. In 2012, there was $7 million spent. There was $57 million in total, but only $7 million in the north. In 2013, there was no program; in 2014, no program; in 2015, no program. There was no oil and gas, and oil companies were asking to sit on their permits.
I heard from IRC loud and clear that they should be forced to spend the money that they committed, but it didn't happen. You see lost opportunity in those five years leading up to 2015, for oil and gas, because you mentioned that there was—
Mayor, Hamlet of Tuktoyaktuk
Yes. We were in discussions with the VP in Imperial about coming back up, and they were going to ramp up. At the time, they were talking about bringing in a backup well.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Do you think that while those discussions were happening they were talking and asking for extensions to their permits and saying...?
Liberal
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
It's coming back now, and we're coming to that five-year period now for the review to kick in. While Inuvialuit and the Government of Northwest Territories are doing the science review, all that information should come together. It should happen in a more positive fashion than it did last time, I'm hoping—
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
—but it will do so only if the oil prices come back.
Conservative
