Evidence of meeting #19 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was suicide.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you, Cindy Blackstock, for being here. This is a really important discussion.
What I find astounding is that Canada was found to be racially discriminating against children, and it ignored a compliance order. That's why you are here today: because the supplemental estimates show that the Government of Canada decided that it didn't have to bother putting any money into Jordan's principle. That's why you are here as a witness.
You talk about the repeated denials of service that were found and the systemic racial discrimination. I hear from officials, “Well, it's complicated. We have to consult. We're doing our best”. This past week a little boy was denied an audiology test by a bureaucrat in Ottawa who told the doctor, “Let's wait till that child's four or six and see if a problem develops”. As the father of a deaf child, I know that if they don't get that diagnosis immediately, that child is done for life.
I'd like you to comment on this attitude that we hear from officials, “Well, we will implement Jordan's Principle by consulting”. Are they still racially discriminating? Are they still denying service to children in this day?
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
Yes, they are. In my view, they are continuing to racially discriminate, and children are continuing to be denied services.
That is the uncomfortable reality we need to deal with. It is not announcements, it's not nice statements by me, by the government, or by anyone else that change the reality for children on the ground. It is real change in federal government policy and funding levels that will ensure that children like that—and I hear many stories all over the country—are not being denied services and indeed set up for a life of disadvantage because we don't have the courage as a country to stop racially discriminating against children as a fiscal policy.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I just want to be clear. I am not targeting any individual bureaucrat. They are following the policy. The policy of Canada tells them that they have the right to interfere with a doctor's decision about what is medically safe for a child, and that is continuing. They are still not in compliance.
I notice, with these supplementary estimates, that no money for services has started to flow—that means that money for education will start after the school year has already started—and that there are zero dollars for Jordan's principle. How can we implement Jordan's principle to protect children like the child I mentioned, if there are zero dollars set aside? The Government of Canada had 12 years to prepare for the Jordan's principle settlement. What do you see when you see zero dollars for Jordan's principle?
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
I see children being racially discriminated against. I think it is important to recognize that this case did not sneak up on the federal government. Jordan's principle didn't sneak up on the federal government. Jordan's principle was first mentioned in a joint report that was agreed to by the federal government in 2005. It passed the House of Commons in 2007. There have been repeated reports by the Auditor General and others raising the alarm about the lack of implementation, and yet here we find ourselves, 11 years later, a whole childhood later, many tragic stories later, still talking about implementing it. That is not good enough.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
When the government responded with their budget and put in $71 million for the child welfare needs, when it has been estimated that it is over $200 million right now.... What we were told by officials at this table, just over a week ago, was that they would love to help, that they would love to meet that, but, you know, it is an issue of capacity on the ground, and it is going to take a while before we can get capacity on the ground.
My read of this is that they are saying that all the child welfare agencies, which have been starved of funds over the years, are somehow not capable of meeting the needs of the children, and the government wants to work with them. What do you see when you hear them say that it is an issue of capacity, that even five years down the road they still will not be in compliance the Human Rights Tribunal?
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
There was no evidence tendered at the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal by the federal government that the reason children should be treated unequally is somehow a capacity issue of first nations. There is no finding in the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal that suggests that first nations are somehow incapable of addressing and providing equitable services. The capacity issues that are mentioned in the tribunal's decision all deal with the federal government's failure to act on previous solutions.
I think we need to really think about this. I talked about this in our submissions yesterday, that the federal government, in suggesting that this is a capacity issue and providing no evidence of how it knows that all 100-plus first nations agencies—many which have been operating for 20 or 30 years and have won international awards for their practice—are somehow incapable of addressing and implementing services that would comply with the order as of right now. I think this is akin to saying, “We can't treat you equally because you are not capable.” If this were a gender or pay equity issue, I don't think anyone would get away with saying that women aren't worthy of being treated equally today because they don't know how to spend the money. That is the type of argument that we are seeing there, with all due respect to those who are making it.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
You were part of the pre-budget consultations. You laid out the issues that needed to be addressed. They were ignored in the budget. The Human Rights Tribunal decision came down. We had the supplementary (A)s, which was the opportunity for the government to meet the compliance order. There were zero dollars for Jordan's principle, zero dollars to meet the child welfare shortfall.
I am not a lawyer, but we are dealing with a legal ruling about racial discrimination, and what we hear from the government is that it will take five years to get their act together. Do they risk being in contempt of court for refusing to meet their legal obligations?
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
Yes, they are at risk of that. In fact, we have seen the subsequent order from the tribunal of May 24, which said that progress was insufficient and ordered the government to immediately report back.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I want to close on the issue of the shell game that happens when Indigenous Affairs has to start playing catch-up and start hauling money out of projects.
We've had schools cancelled in our region. We had water plants cancelled. The numbers we're getting.... You suggest about $98 million or $100 million a year. Without a legislative framework, the government is saying they're not going to do any legislative framework on education, that they're just going to flow the money out the door.
We don't know if the money will ever actually go out the door, how much will go out, but if these shortfalls continue to exist, are we going to still see this shell game of money being pulled off very important needs to start meeting shortfalls because they didn't put the money into child welfare in the first place?
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
Yes, and the Auditor General actually recommended they cease that process in 2008. The federal government agreed and continued it.
If the $98 million in transfers continues, for example, that would represent 52% of the planned education infrastructure funding that the federal government announced in budget 2016, and those facilities would not be built.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Thank you, Dr. Blackstock, for your continued and very frank advocacy on this issue.
There are a couple of things I want to probe. You wrote an article entitled “Reconciliation Means Not Saying Sorry Twice”. In it you write that reconciliation is not just about saying sorry, but about understanding the harm in a way that not only acknowledges the past but also leads to new awareness and commitment to avoid repeating the same mistakes in the future. Reconciliation requires that one not just say the right thing, but also does the right thing.
Reflecting on that, can you highlight some of the current issues?
We recognize the issue regarding the child welfare system. That's quite clear from the decision. What are some of the other issues that will probably give light to some of the challenges we face today, and maybe two or three issues that the government needs to address immediately?.
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
The shortfall in education is certainly a key one. I know there are investments, but, again, they fall into the same peril as child welfare, in that they're rolled out over five years, with 50% of the investment not coming come until year five. If you're a kid in grade 8, you won't see the full benefit that investment.
I like to collect old documents and I have a report in my office commissioned by the former Department of Indian Affairs for the education of children in Ontario. It was written by a man named R. Alex Sim. At the time, he recommended reforms in education, including first nations control over education, equity in education, and ensuring that there was appropriate curriculum on aboriginal peoples in the curriculum. He wrote, “Can anyone hazard a guess as to what year or what century real progress will be made toward the equality of Indian children?” That was written in 1967. I was three years old. I was one of those kids that recommendation could have helped. We're still at it. Those recommendations are still on the table and I'm 51 years old.
I talk to first nations students who are going to these underfunded schools, and it is so painful to talk to them. I remember meeting Chelsey Edwards from Attawapiskat First Nation, who took over as spokesperson for the Shannen’s Dream for Safe and Comfy Schools and equitable education campaign. She was about 15 years old and said to me, “Cindy, it's too late for my childhood, it's too late for me to be treated equally, but it's not too late for a baby born today, maybe we can do something for that baby.”
That's why we can't get addicted to this concept of incremental equality. It never comes. Children don't have incremental childhoods. Even though it may make sense at a government level to flow things over five years, it wouldn't make sense if you were a child in that school, or the parent of a child who's not being given the same opportunity to succeed. There would be no way that you would tolerate it. There's no way that you should tolerate it. Yet, we have become comfortable with this in Canadian society. That needs to be addressed immediately.
The other issues are the reality that many first nations live in third world country conditions. I have heard this rhetoric over the years that, well, we can't get clean water up to some of these communities. If we can get a Twitter feed to a guy in space, surely we can get clean water pumping into Tyendinaga First Nation, an hour and a half outside of Toronto. These are things that we can do if we're motivated to do them. I don't think there's any excuse for a country that is among the 11 wealthiest nations in the world to not be providing clean drinking water to every citizen in the country.
The final thing is to remind ourselves that we aren't doing our best job for all of Canada's children. There's an international ranking called the KidsRights Index. It looks at how well the countries are doing in proportion to their wealth to their nation's children. Last year, Canada ranked 57th in the world.
That leaves a lot of room for improvement for one of the wealthiest countries. As parliamentarians I encourage you to put children on the agenda more often. The economy is doing better than children because you talk about it more and you pay a lot more attention to it. The real reason for an economy is to ensure that children are benefiting and that we're creating a sustainable society, and that means paying attention to kids.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
You discussed a Marshall Plan type of execution of these programs. With respect to child welfare, what would that Marshall Plan look like?
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
We have proposed that in our submission to the tribunal. We want to be solution-involvers. I'm not about winning. I want to make sure things change for kids.
Number one, we have said that you need to update that $108 million to 2016 values and get that flowing out the door. There should be full compliance with Jordan's principle, ensuring that you're making investments that address remoteness and immediate factors.
The second piece is those investments in culturally based plans, so that we know what culturally based services are and how much they'll cost.
Then we also looked at some of those structural issues around the funding mechanisms, the things the Auditor General has identified for us year after year as long-term solutions.
We see it as a three-stage thing. We'd be happy to send you the submissions we've made with regard to these solutions, so that you can further consider them. I do have a written submission that I'll get translated into French so it's available to you as well.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
I want to probe on something that's a little bit out of the scope of your discussion, but it's very relevant to it, which is the racialized statistics that I know Ontario has now adopted with respect to child welfare. Is that now across the board in all the provinces? If not, what do we need to do to get those numbers available across the board?
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
There is, in the United States, a national child welfare data collection system. Canada doesn't have one. In fact, I can't sit here and tell you even how many children are in child welfare care today. That's something I would encourage the federal government to look at, a national data collection system, so we are able to get a better pulse on what's actually happening to children, not only in child welfare but in other areas of their experience, and to launch longitudinal studies so we can see what's actually happening to these kids across their life span.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
In fact, at our last session, we had Professor Hicks talk about suicides, and this is one of the challenges, to be able to have race-based statistics.
Why do you think that hesitation exists?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore
Gary, I'm afraid we're out of time to launch into a third question there. Thanks.
We're moving into the five-minute questions, and the next question comes from David Yurdiga.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
It's very important that we're having this discussion because our children are our future. What we do now will determine how successful they will be in the future, so thank you for being here. It's really important.
What are the challenges in providing child and family services in northern communities? A lot of the northern communities are isolated. It's very difficult to get professionals up to those locations, so what is the solution to address the most northern communities?
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
We've seen good practices from various first nations agencies. In the research we've done and in our consultations, one of the concerns actually has been the underfunding. It's even difficult for first nations proximal to urban areas to recruit qualified staff, because just across the road is provincial work where they can make a lot more money. One of the solutions is actually ensuring that there are sufficient funds to recruit and retain people in northern communities.
The second is that we need to look at some of the technologies that are available to provide services. We have made advancements, for example, in telehealth, but there's no capacity on the child welfare side to replicate programs like that so those types of services could be available to children in remote communities.
The other thing is that we need to take full advantage to address some of the multiple inequities. We know from the research that if you have communities where there is no water, where there is no sanitation, where there are no roads, remediating those concerns will reduce the child welfare factors. That takes investment, and we can do it. If we can build a platform in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean to drill for oil, surely we can provide infrastructure in northern communities so that children can get clean water to drink.
All those things would help.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
Are there any programs out there that promote people from the community undertaking to become a professional to address these issues? You know, instead of bringing people in, we train people within the community. Is there any such program to encourage our youth to go into this field?
Executive Director, First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada
Just circling back to your last question, I will just make note that in the United States, which also has remote communities in Alaska, there are no boil-water advisories in any of their communities. If they can do it, we can do it, too.
To your question on first nations children reaching this profession, one of the things you need to be a social worker is to successfully transition from elementary and secondary school. What we know is that the underfunding of elementary and secondary school means that first nations children are less apt to graduate, less apt to be successful in post-secondary. We need to redress those issues.
Then, absolutely, we've seen innovations in the delivery of post-secondary. I work at the University of Alberta, and developing online programs for social workers has been found to be very successful. Also proven to be successful are post-baccalaureate programs combine online and in-session training, both at universities and in joint training programs that are aboriginal-based.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
I come from a business background and I like to go in there and fix things. If it needs to be replaced, you replace it because, in the long term, it is actually more economical to do that. However, it seems that the bandage approach has always been taken. Investments are currently required in waste water and in housing. I know it's an immense undertaking for a government.
What would be your priorities? We can't address everything at once, but what are the two top things we should proceed with?