Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 23rd, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Welcome, everybody. I call the committee to order and recognize that we're on the unceded territory of the Algonquin people. We have an honoured guest, the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the committee will begin its study of supplementary estimates (C) 2016-17, votes 1c and 10c under Indian Affairs and Northern Development, referred to the committee on February 14, 2017. The department has the Honourable Carolyn Bennett, Hélène Laurendeau, and Paul Thoppil.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Welcome.

The witnesses will be given up to 10 minutes to make an opening statement, and then we'll proceed as we normally do to questions and answers. The Minister is only available for the first hour and then we'll suspend the meeting and have a chance to work with the departmental officials after that.

I'll open it up to the Minister for 10 minutes.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs]

Thank you

Meegwetch, Madam Chair.

I'm glad to be here with you to today on the traditional Algonquin territory to present our departmental supplementary estimates (C) for the 2016-17 fiscal year.

I am the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs. I am joined by Hélène Laurendeau, deputy minister, and Paul Thoppil, chief financial officer.

We also welcome you, Madam Chair, as the new chair and we look forward to working with you and all of the committee members on tackling the critical issues facing indigenous people and northerners. We also want to acknowledge the important work of this committee over the past several months on difficult and complex issues, such as the ongoing suicide crisis in indigenous communities. I just want to say that I'm very happy to hear that you've decided to study the default prevention and management program. We look forward to reading the results of your work and to be able to put in important changes.

So, we welcome the scrutiny of these estimates. As you know, the supplementary estimates (C) exercise is an important one, as it's the final appropriation act for this fiscal year and, with your assent, the work that was started this year in budget 2016 can continue in key areas.

The tabling of the Supplementary Estimates (C) allows for more than an examination and approval of departmental disbursements. It permits us to look back at the progress we've made since the tabling of the Main Estimates and Supplementary Estimates (A) and (B).

Budget 2016, as you all know, made an unprecedented investment of $8.4 billion over five years for indigenous peoples. These funds are critical to reconciliation and to advancing the government's objective to renew the relationship with indigenous people by making real progress on the issues that matter in daily life, issues such as child welfare, housing, water, education, culture, and food security.

I am proud to inform this committee that the funding is flowing into the communities. As of February 15, 2017, over 90% of this year's money had already been allocated to indigenous communities in the form of funding agreements.

This year, alone, our targeted investments have resulted in 201 water and wastewater projects, 965 housing projects, 125 education infrastructure projects and 167 culture and recreation projects.

These estimates support requests totalling $92 million, bringing the total appropriations for the department to approximately $9.5 billion for this fiscal year. This is an increase compared to last year's total appropriations, which were $8.9 billion.

Traditionally, supplementary estimates (C) tackle largely technical matters as the fiscal year comes to a close.

Included in these estimates is $56 million to support emergency management operations on-reserve. There is also $22 million in funding for Operation Return Home: Manitoba Interlake flood remediation and settlement. Operation Return Home will continue to help repair, rebuild, and re-establish four Manitoba first nations that were impacted by the severe flooding in 2011.

Our government believes that negotiation, rather than litigation, is the best way to settle disputes and right historical wrongs.

I was proud, a few weeks ago, to announce that I have the mandate now to negotiate a resolution to the sixties scoop, a dark and tragic period in our history. I am also proud that our government successfully settled the Anderson class action and that we have appointed a special representative to engage in discussions towards a resolution of the Gottfriedson class action.

These estimates contain more than $3 million in funding for research in the indigenous childhood claims litigation. I cannot stress enough that settling these types of claims not only is the right thing to do, but also continues to advance our reconciliation efforts.

Funding of $1.8 million is going to the Arctic regional environmental studies to inform decision-making on offshore oil and gas activities that could affect three regions of the Canadian Arctic.

This funding supports our government's commitment to integrating indigenous traditional knowledge into the assessments of potential impacts.

As you know, last December the Prime Minister announced that Arctic Canadian waters were declared indefinitely off limits to offshore Arctic oil and gas licensing, with a science-based review to happen in five years. Arctic regional environmental studies will play an important role in that five-year review. These studies will draw on both scientific and indigenous knowledge to support decision-making around possible future resource development and other commercial activities in these regions.

I value your opinions, advice, and assistance as we continue to implement an agenda that advances reconciliation.

As Gord Downie reminded us Canadians during his Secret Path performances, we have 150 years behind us that we need to learn from and we've got 150 years ahead and we'd better just get to work.

I am looking forward to the next steps of this work together.

My colleagues will now join me in answering your questions about these estimates.

On behalf of all of us, thank you, meegwetch, for the invitation to be with you today.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Thank you very much.

We start off the first round of questioning with MP Massé.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Hello, minister and deputy minister. Thank you for being here today to answer our questions about the Supplementary Estimates (C).

I will begin with a more general question.

Budget 2016 allocated $8.4 billion over five years. For 2016-2017, the forecast expenditures were $1.5 billion.

Can you give us an idea of the expenditures that have been made from that $1.5 billion? What expenditures have been made from that amount?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Almost all of the money goes into the grants and contributions. A very small percentage, about 7%, goes to administration in our department. I think that in most accounting evaluations, up to 15% is viewed to be normal. Most of our money is in what's called vote 10, which is the absolute that has to go to indigenous communities or has to be in a transfer in that way. Vote 1 is the part that is for the department to run these programs.

As you know, we are trying desperately to build indigenous governments and institutions, and our overall goal is to get out of the business of grants and contributions in programming dollars and to be able to do this differently in building indigenous governments, self-determination, as well as indigenous-led institutions.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Generally speaking, what obstacles do you face in transferring these funds to the communities, band councils, and so forth?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I think the most difficult problem we have right now is the capacity in certain communities to use the money and to apply early. It seems that communities with the most difficulties don't have the capacity to get the proposals in on time.

In housing, we did it in three tranches such that we could work with the communities that needed it a lot, for a third entry point on housing. But as we go forward, these are the kinds of things we hope to be able to change. What was before the year-on-year funding meant, if you can say, that the communities that weren't as needy were the best at getting their proposals in, so other communities continued to fall behind. We're trying to make sure that we are building capacity and that we can find different timing to do this long-term planning.

Mr. Massé, you say our ability to encourage comprehensive community plans seems to be the way. In British Columbia, it's going very well. There's recently been another. In Manitoba, they've begun a conference to build that capacity. Once you have a comprehensive community plan, where it's not just chief and council, but also the principal, the nurse, the police chief, the elders, and the youth all planning for long term.... Now that we have money over a five-year period that can do this, we can actually help them really develop their infrastructure needs in a really credible and cohesive way. We are also learning that it also deals with child welfare. It also deals with missing and murdered indigenous people. When communities come together to develop this plan, then we can back them up. Their knowing that this year they will get this much and next year they will get the next is going to help us lift, in a way that I think all Canadians want us to, some of these communities that have been struggling.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

As you said earlier, you are asking for $56 million to be allocated in the supplementary estimates to “reimburse first nations and emergency management service providers for on-reserve response and recovery activities”.

Can you tell us which emergency management activities the $56 million will be used for?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

As you know, these severe weather events seem to be way more common, and it really is.... It means that first nations have to put their own money out. We try to help them as much as we can, as with the $7.4 million for the wildfires in Alberta, and $19.2 million for the Red Cross for evacuation due to the flooding in Manitoba and the tornado and wildfire events in Alberta. There are the long-term evacuation costs in Kashechewan, the flood recovery costs. Then there was the major Thanksgiving storm in Atlantic Canada. We have A-based funding that is always there, but we actually have to send in.... In the supplementary estimates, we have to ask for a little bit more, depending on how many events there were.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

You have about a minute and a half.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Okay.

I have one final question then.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

No, 30 seconds. Make it short. I was giving you 10 minutes.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

The main estimates allocate $4 million for prevention.

Will measures be taken to improve prevention strategies in order to help communities better deal with emergencies?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Oui. I think it is a partnership that is about working with first nations on mitigation and on prevention by having things in better shape to deal with preventing these emergencies. The first nations identify their priority from what they know has happened in the past and what they want to prevent in the future, and then we work with them on their prevention programs.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Thank you.

MP McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us today.

I want to start with a bit of a comment. The ability and responsibility that parliamentarians have to scrutinize the spending of government is one of the most important tasks we have. It's the ability to look at what the plans are through the budget process, and it's the ability through main estimates and a variety of accountability mechanisms to actually see how the government is spending the dollars that people work so hard for.

Of course, you'll notice that we have a really important structure whereby we do that, and I want to note that first nations communities, unfortunately, do not have that same opportunity, with the lack of the enforcement of transparency via the first nations transparency act. They do not, and it's getting worse for a number of communities to get that basic information so they can look at it and hold their governments to account for how they spend the money. Certainly, an example is the lunch program money that went missing. I think that if communities had detailed information, they would perhaps recognize that they weren't getting that lunch program.

I wanted to put that on the record, because I continue to be very concerned that there is not an opportunity for communities to have the same privileges that we do in holding their governments to account.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Cathy, I think it's very important for me to put on the record that over 90% of communities do report in this way—

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It's less now. It's less now.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

—and that the ones who are having trouble reporting are the ones with capacity issues, so the fact that we now have—

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Madam Chair, I—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

—more and more communities—

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Sorry.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

With respect, I have some questions, but I wanted to make that comment. I do have some questions—