Evidence of meeting #49 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Chief Sheila North Wilson  Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

Welcome, everybody. We'll get started.

We first of all want to recognize that we are on the unceded territory of the Algonquin people.

As we continue our process as a nation for truth and reconciliation, it is our honour to be here to hear from Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson.

I want to welcome both Sheila North Wilson and David Chadwick, who will be presenting on behalf of MKO. They will have 10 minutes for their presentation, and then we'll do a series of questions.

Thank you for coming. I'll turn the floor over to you.

8:55 a.m.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Thank you very much.

[Witness speaks in Cree]

I am grateful to be here. My name is Sheila North Wilson from the Bunibonibee Cree Nation. An elder once told me that when we use our mother tongue first in public spaces, we are practising our sovereignty. So I do that out of respect for my sovereignty and for my people, not out of disrespect for yours.

I'm thankful to be here. I also want to preface this by saying that this is just a minor part of the big problem around this topic. I don't profess to know everything about it—I don't think anyone really does—but I'll give you some perspectives on what we know from our region.

I'm thankful for our 30 chiefs and communities that I represent and for our staff, including Dave Chadwick, and others who help us along the way.

Tansi, boozhoo, edlanet'e, and good morning. On behalf of the 30 northern Manitoba first nations representing nearly two-thirds of the province and the more than 72,000 first nations citizens of Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak, who are Cree, Dene, and Oji-Cree, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to make this brief presentation regarding the default prevention and management policy of INAC.

As you are no doubt aware, it was brought in under the previous federal government. I think this review is timely and in fact overdue. I don't believe there are many MPs or even senators who would say that this policy has led to greater economic development on reserves. When it was brought in, the federal government had embarked on massive cuts in funding to core and operational funding for first nations organizations and tribal councils across Canada. On June 3 of that year, all first nations organizations were sent AANDC letters outlining reductions and project funding cuts that would take place in 2013 and 2014. I might add that those letters came in after 5 p.m. that day, so it was very underhanded. Core funding was reduced by 10%, and regional organization funding was reduced to a maximum of $500,000. Project funding was reduced over a two-year period.

First nations organizations on average lost over 50% of their funding. For Manitoba it was 68%, according to one report I read recently. I read that Manitoba had one of the bigger cuts across Canada.

Over a period of five years, the same federal department under-spent its budget by almost $1 billion. It was under-spending its annual budget by $218 million on average during the last few years of the former federal government. This was during a period when the public was challenging the federal government to address the unsafe water crisis on literally hundreds of reserves. Long-overdue basic infrastructure was stalled and another generation was denied equal educational funding because of their race and geographical location.

The then prime minister officially apologized for the damages caused by residential schools, but was unwilling to act to address the inequities that indigenous people endured and still endure. Instead, programs addressing our concerns were subject to funding reductions greater than in almost all other departments. The default prevention and management policy fits into that agenda, as it succeeded in reducing economic development and self-government.

I want to begin by noting that over half of our MKO first nations are under INAC management control. The default prevention and management policy, which came into effect in 2011 and was revised in 2013, is supposed to support community capacity development, so that communities continue to increase their ability to self-manage, and to prevent default and default recurrence.

This in fact means that the power and options of the local chief and council are very limited, at best. Many Manitoba first nations have been under these types of restrictions for decades under different names, including “Indian agent”. This means that for all of the most important decisions in their communities, they have had to contact INAC Winnipeg or Ottawa should the federally approved actual manager decide not to approve their recommendation.

The most recent statistics on the INAC website show that seven of our first nations have been placed under the category of “recipient managed—management action plan”. That euphemism officially means that the first nation develops a plan that is acceptable to INAC. The next two categories “recipient-appointed advisor co-management” and the “third-party funding agreement management” are stages more tightly controlled by the department. Twelve of our first nations are under these categories. A total of 46 nations in Manitoba are under the default management category, one of the highest numbers in the country.

Officially this policy is supposed to focus on prevention, management, and sustainability, but more often it is a constraint on developing sustainable communities. While this policy of the previous federal government remains, so also do the most outstanding infrastructure shortfalls of the previous government. There is no shortage of potential infrastructure projects needed on reserves across this country. Most of them were identified years ago.

It is not news that this committee and federal government analysis indicated last year that it would take $2 billion to deal with mould and the housing shortages on our reserves in northern Manitoba alone while the housing budget for the entire country in the last budget was less than a tenth of that. Estimates of the deficit for infrastructure on first nations in this country are in excess of $7 billion. Without getting into the details of what is needed at each community that MKO represents, I simply want to point out that these deplorable conditions force first nations leaders into a series of crisis situations.

Band officials are called on daily to deal with desperate calls for help from families struggling to survive in dire poverty. They and the band are constantly falling behind as they try to deal with all these pressures. We are pleased that the federal government has formally endorsed the recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, but I think if we are truly going to implement change we need to examine the factors that keep our people down.

A week ago I spoke at the United Nations on the similarities and differences between refugee immigrants coming to Canada from elsewhere and indigenous people coming to urban settings from remote reserves.

Both groups find coming to Canadian urban centres a major challenge. The different cultures, languages, infrastructure, employment opportunities, and, frankly, often overt racism are difficult to overcome. Fortunately for most refugees, there is a lot of support to assist them. Often that is not enough, but the comparison with the situation of indigenous immigrants coming to cities is very telling. Without high schools let alone post-secondary institutions on most of our reserves, many of us are forced to go to cities following elementary school. As I can attest personally having come from a remote fly-in reserve for high school, it is a huge change and frequently a dangerous one for young women and girls. Without any support and no understanding of the threats and dangers that are out there, I came close to disaster more than once when I left home at 15 to go to high school in Winnipeg. Our reserve, like most reserves, had no resources to assist me or others. The fact is that most first nations living under default prevention and management have no real power or influence in deciding band priorities. As Senator Murray Sinclair said last night, progress on implementing the TRC calls to action has been quite limited after 20 months. For first nations under default prevention and management, these changes are virtually impossible to see. The statistics of despair have not changed. If we are going to address reconciliation seriously in this country, I suggest that taking away the strings that control many reserves would be a good place to start.

First nations peoples were self-sufficient for thousands of years before colonization and the creation of the Indian Act and their relocation to small reserves. The default management policies of INAC reinforce this control by preventing the development of self-government in our first nations. When we look at the future of my province and much of the country, it is increasingly understood that the greater participation of indigenous people in this economy is critical to their future economic prosperity. Ensuring the success of indigenous advancement in the workplace will take major investments on and off reserves. The payoffs for the economy will be in the billions of dollars. Having first nations in charge of their own communities is a tangible first step in the economic development of first nations communities.

Despite good intentions, much of the proposed infrastructure spending committed in the current fiscal year for development on reserves has not been spent. One of the reasons for this is the continued inability of first nations governments to plan and work with the private and public sector because they do not have the power to do so. Projects get delayed, and in the case of our fly-in communities, these postponements can be for a year or longer.

As Cindy Blackstock has so eloquently put it, children only have one life. We cannot endlessly delay action while waiting for incremental change. The trauma occurring on reserves must stop. Continuing to promote the same failed policies and expecting new results makes no sense.

Instead, let's practise true reconciliation and acknowledge that controlling local government from Ottawa is not improving conditions on reserves. It is time that we helped to develop local government excellence, not just the continued industry of outsiders overseeing all decisions and focusing on past overruns caused by inadequate financing.

Tomorrow the federal government releases its budget for 2017 and 2018. As much as I want to see commitments to address the many economic challenges, I would also like to see a major commitment to take off the chains controlling so many of our first nations.

Thank you for listening to me today.

Kinanaskomitin. Meegwetch. Mahsi Cho.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

Thank you so much.

Now we move into the question period.

The first round of questions goes to MP Michael McLeod.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT

Thank you for the presentation, Grand Chief.

You've raised several issues around this table on different occasions. I think there is some real concern right across the country in our aboriginal communities and reserves about the level of support that's being provided to enable our communities to become healthy and functional.

As you've indicated, the cuts made by the previous government are probably the number one cause for where our communities are today. I have communities that have indicated to me that their budgets have been reduced by up to 40% and 50%. They're at the point of becoming dysfunctional. There was not enough money invested in core funding as it was, and reducing it by 40% leaves no room for capacity. Most communities are just able to keep the lights on and keep the heat on, and that's about it. There's really no management.

Also, INAC doesn't spend any money on training in the communities, not that I've seen. We have band councils and people who are coming in to manage who have virtually no experience, because we have no capacity locally. I see people who come into the community and are sometimes just wandering through, and who end up getting hired to be the manager, with no experience.

Through my own experience, I've recognized that the communities that do the best have people who are local, people who are locally trained, have homes there, and don't plan to go anywhere.

I want to try to get some indication of what your priority recommendations would be, and I want you to maybe expand a little more on the core funding issue.

9:05 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson

You're right. I think you know more about the situation than a lot of people might. We start off on a deficit and a negative when we start talking about core financing in our first nations, so it's not a surprise that some first nations and managers get accused of mismanagement.

For example, how are you supposed to predict how many funerals you're supposed to cover for the year? In the budget at the beginning of the year, there may be $10,000 for funerals, but maybe you have a rash of suicides or poor health conditions. The chief and council are forced to move money over to cover a lot of these expenses for our people, who don't have the means to pay for a coffin and for funeral costs. That's just one area that is often overlooked when you talk about budgets. Roads are another one. In one of our communities, I think they get $50,000 a year to maintain their roads, and it costs a million dollars to do that in actual numbers. How are they supposed to account for that? When they do, they're considered to be mismanaging the funds.

This government, the Indian Act, and all the policies are negatively impacting our people to the point that it's crippling our first nations. There are many good ideas in our communities. Our people know how to run their own communities and run their own affairs, but the way it's set up right now is not allowing that. We need to change these policies.

I think the biggest and most obvious recommendation is that we need to honour these treaties and start giving to our communities the right amount that they need to be able to function. That's based on treaties. It's not based on a handout. This is supposed to be money and resources that we are supposed to share together as a people in this country, not a handout to our first nations.

That's often how it's characterized in the public and in the media: that we're asking for a handout. That's not right. We have as much right as anyone else does to the resources and the profits from the resources of our communities and our regions. In Manitoba, 80% of the energy that goes to Manitoba Hydro comes from our north, from my region, and we benefit the least. We still have the highest rates in energy bills in our province. We have the poorest communities in our province, yet 80% of that energy that the Government of Manitoba uses and sells to other places comes from our region.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT

I want to ask one more question on funding.

The last budget had $8.4 billion for aboriginal funding. I know that this money does not include the north. That $8.4 billion is for the southern communities. We don't get any of that money. The money that was announced doesn't come to us. I'm probably the only MP who lives in a small aboriginal community, and we haven't seen a house built in I don't know how many years. The money is all going south.

Have you seen a difference with this new budget announcement? Has it made a difference in terms of funding for the communities in your area? I see that almost 60% of the first nations you represent are in third party management situations.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

We have time for a very short answer of about 30 seconds.

9:10 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson

In terms of infrastructure, no, and in other areas, perhaps, such as mental health.... There is some investment in mental health, although it will never be enough. On infrastructure, I don't see it.

I hear that there are promises coming for housing, but yet again we don't know. The winter road season is already short. A first nation called me just yesterday to say that their road is closed. They have 20 more loads to take home tonight, but the road is closed. If the roads don't reopen for this emergency supply, they won't get their lagoon built.

We're also subject to the weather, and that also has to do with all the decisions down here on climate change.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

Thank you.

Our questioning now moves to MP Arnold Viersen.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Thank you to our guests for being here today.

My questions will be about the third party management issue that we're studying here. How many of the first nations in Manitoba are under third party management right now?

9:10 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Do you have an anecdotal story about why one of them is under third party management?

9:10 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson

There are probably different reasons for it, but—

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Do you have an example?

9:10 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson

I did allude earlier to the fact that they're starting off with a negative balance anyway, and when they are trying to manage the small amount of resources they have to cover all the needs, they end up looking as though they are mismanaging, but really they are trying to do the best they can with the few resources they do have to cover the high needs in the community.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

But you don't have a particular case you could use to explain to us how they ended up in third party management?

9:15 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson

No, I don't, and I don't think doing that would be fair to any of the communities.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

I have 14 first nations in my riding, and three of them are under third party management. There are a lot of anecdotal stories. One of them has gone bankrupt, I think, three times. That would play into what you're saying, that there just isn't enough money.

9:15 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson

There just really isn't, and at the end of the day, it's usually the young people and the sick people who suffer the most.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

One of the first nations I recently visited has a trust account for the resource development that happens in the area. It goes into a trust account. There's $200 million in that trust account that they are unable to access because they cannot get coordination among the band members.

Is that something you see happening more often? I'm not sure how it works in northern Manitoba. Is there an agreement for the electrical power? I was up in northern Quebec. They have the James Bay agreement. There's a funding mechanism through the power generation. Is there anything like that in northern Manitoba?

9:15 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson

There isn't in northern Manitoba. There are partnerships in Nelson House, for example, but there's not a trust fund.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

One of the troubles that come with the trust funds is that they can't get agreement among them, because everything that goes through that trust fund has to go through a referendum, I guess. If a majority of the band members are in agreement, then they can spend that money on particular things.

Is there an opportunity to perhaps put that money directly into the hands of every first nation member and then tax it upwards?

9:15 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson

I'm sure there is. I don't know details of how agreements and trust funds work. I'm sure they are different in every community, but for sure the more we can streamline the policies that affect that, the better, because that just goes back to the same thing that you're holding back resources. How much under-spending did the previous government do with our first nations while we are suffering the most?

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

We had the ministry here last meeting, and they were saying there are a number of triggers that put a first nation into third party management.

A lot of times, they say, if it were anywhere else in Canada, rather than paying the funding for services to one company or organization, if they ran into trouble with them they could go to another organization, but when there's a remote first nation, there is only one organization providing those services, and the ministry has no other option but to come and help them out with the financial management of the funding.

Is there an opportunity to perhaps circumvent the organization and put the money directly into the hands of the people, the individuals who live on that first nation, and then tax it upwards thereby creating more accountability among their own people?

9:15 a.m.

Grand Chief, Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak Inc.

Grand Chief Sheila North Wilson

For sure I think we can look at everything like that, but at the same time, we also have to remember that you're talking about people who are not used to that yet. The power to control and manage their own resources has been taken away from them. They can manage their own families and so on, but it's a huge responsibility to just plunk it into the hands of the families themselves, because they are going to need capacity building. We don't provide enough capacity building in our first nations for education or even for financial literacy. New Canadians, new immigrants, who come into cities sometimes have money ahead of time, but we don't have that luxury when we go to the city. We sometimes don't even have references to get apartments.

So there's always a lack already there with regard to financial literacy and financial opportunity to support and sustain themselves. To put that on them automatically is not going to be helpful, but at the same time I know there has to be a way to do that, because as we go along, it's not working. It's crippling everyone. The sooner we change these policies, the better the rest of us will be.