Evidence of meeting #53 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was financial.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Loretta Burnstick  Finance Clerk, Finance Department, Alexander First Nation, As an Individual
Stanley Bear  Chief Executive Officer, Indigenous Management Group Inc.
Lorne Cochrane  Managing Partner, Indigenous Management Group Inc.
Wendy Harris  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Executive Service Organization
Pamela Palmater  Chair in Indigenous Governance, Ryerson University, Department of Politics & Public Administration, As an Individual
Ghislain Picard  Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations of Quebec and Labrador
Norm Odjick  Representative, Assembly of First Nations of Quebec and Labrador
Chief Perry Bellegarde  National Chief, Assembly of First Nations

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

I'd like to welcome you all to the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. Today, we're meeting on the unceded territory of the Algonquin people, a fact that is very important as we go through the process of truth and reconciliation in Canada. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on February 21, 2017, we will continue our study of default prevention and management policy.

On our first panel today, we have Wendy Harris from the Canadian Executive Service Organization, Stan Bear and Lorne Cochrane from the Indigenous Management Group Incorporated, and Loretta Burnstick appearing as an individual by video conference from Edmonton.

Why don't we start with Loretta? Each group will have 10 minutes to present. After all the presentations are done, there will be an opportunity for questions.

I turn it over to Loretta Burnstick from Edmonton. Welcome.

8:45 a.m.

Loretta Burnstick Finance Clerk, Finance Department, Alexander First Nation, As an Individual

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

I first of all would like to say thank you to the Creator for allowing me the opportunity to be here and to speak with you as per your invitation.

I guess I found it somewhat difficult at the beginning to try to answer questions on the default policy, the reason being that the policy, as much as it may be meant to help our communities, doesn't necessarily address all of the issues that I think the community is dealing with. Although I'm not a policy-maker and not a politician—I'm just a normal working girl who works for my community—my personal opinion is that it seems to be a policy that deals more with crisis management. In our case, as some people may be aware, the Alexander First Nation has been in the news and there are some controversial issues going on.

We are now dealing with a number of issues in our finance department in terms of accountability and transparency. This is the second time. It's my understanding that we've been under co-management. If I'm not mistaken, I think the first time was in 2009. With co-management coming in again in 2017, it got me thinking about what the reason is that we're back here again dealing with co-management.

I've had some very sleepless nights in the last few days—in fact, since I got the email to attend for the presentation. I tried again to sum it up as to what I thought could help and what could be improved and those sorts of things. I found it really difficult to put all of that into a 10-minute opening statement, so what I decided to do was delete my 10-minute opening statement. I thought that I would just speak to you directly and try to give you an idea of the things we deal with on a day-to-day basis on my reserve.

I also want to mention, as a member of my band, that I'm here speaking on behalf of many people, particularly the homeless people, the people who are poor in my community, the children who are in care, the sick, the elderly, and even some of our people who are in the prison population. I wanted to make special mention of them because what happens on our reserves obviously has a direct impact, and we're supposed to be there to help all of our people who are struggling. From what I have seen, and since returning to my reserve and working in my community, the system really does not allow for that to happen as best it can.

I tried to sum it up when I first got back home and was dealing with all of the issues there. I was so overwhelmed that the word I came up with was that it's a “mess”. There are so many variables to deal with, and the default prevention policy doesn't do that. The co-manager comes in and deals with the finances of the band as best he can.

A number of other issues contribute to why we end up in default management. The list is long, but I'll try to speak on some of the things I've seen that contribute to that.

One, we have no policies in place that are enforceable. Let me rephrase that. We have a number of policies that have been drafted, that are in the office, but have never been passed as law; therefore, they're not enforceable.

I just want to make mention of a previous incident that I had back in 2008. My intent here is not to make my community look like we're terrible. We do have some positive things. However, back in 2008, I was a summer student, and I was instructed to do some summer student work in the finance department in our economic development office. I want to touch on an issue, I guess, rather than dance around it, as to what I feel plays a contributing factor as to why we end up in default management. They're obviously not nice words, and nobody wants to talk about not-so-nice things, but it seems to be one of the pink elephants in the room in meetings in my community and sometimes in other meetings. That is the issue of corruption and mismanagement.

The reason I bring that up is that I've seen and I've been involved in witnessing the effects of it. I'll go back to 2008 when I was a summer student. At the time I was employed by the late Raymond Arcand, who was the chief. During my employment, I was concerned with some of the spending practices and the lack of accountability and transparency in that department. At that time, I brought it to his attention. As an ex-RCMP member, he instructed me to take my concerns to K division in Edmonton.

Well, I did that. What happened a year later was that I got a letter back from the RCMP saying that there was nothing they could do. Needless to say, I felt defeated and I felt helpless, and it bothered me to no end because I thought of all those people who were still struggling in my community, who were living in poor housing, and whose children were ending up in care because they had no support. The list just goes on, and on, and on, again, of all the needs in my community.

I was fired from my position. I was locked out of my office. I left the community because I had to find work.

It's 2017, and we are still going through the same thing that I witnessed back in 2008. Having said that, it seems like not a whole lot has changed.

There's a saying in the community. When people come into the band office—and this is an organization that is supposed to improve the lives of our people in our community—the saying is, because of corruption and mismanagement, “In the real world, these things wouldn't happen.”

I don't want to get into too many specifics because, again, there are many examples. We have people who are still living with mould in their homes. We have a lack of housing. We have children, again, who are still being taken into care because we don't have the resources to look after them in our own communities.

When I look at the opportunities lost because of corruption and mismanagement, it's heartbreaking. I know that money is not everything, but sound financial management, strong governance, and laws and policies that are enforceable are needed in order to make things run more smoothly in our communities.

I grew up in a time that I call “the Indian Act times”—

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

You have one minute. I'm just indicating you only have a little bit of time, about one minute.

8:55 a.m.

Finance Clerk, Finance Department, Alexander First Nation, As an Individual

Loretta Burnstick

Okay.

What I'm asking the standing committee for is an opportunity to have representatives of your government come out and meet with the people to further discuss all of the things and the variables that we deal with to improve the lives of our people on reserve, so that we can look at some things that deal with accountability and transparency and ask for assistance for our communities from all levels of government.

Many people in my reserve are struggling, and it's heart-wrenching to see that.

I ask for your compassion, your understanding, and your assistance to come meet with us in our communities or to send representatives to help us deal with all of this. Basically, I don't know what else to say. I know there's not much time, but I would welcome further opportunities to discuss other things that I know first-hand are affecting our communities in negative ways. We're going through some very troubling times right now.

Thank you.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

I want to thank you for those comments.

We'll have an opportunity for questions and the MPs will have an opportunity to delve into it.

Our next presenters are Stan Bear and Lorne Cochrane, from Indigenous Management Group.

8:55 a.m.

Stanley Bear Chief Executive Officer, Indigenous Management Group Inc.

Hello. I'm Stan Bear. I'm from Peguis First Nation. I was born and raised on Peguis, and l left the community many years ago now.

I am an entrepreneur. I have been running a management company in the private sector for almost 20 years. One of the activities we have been doing for the last 11 or 12 years is third party management. It is a component in our company. We do co-management facility. I have a team of financial experts and project managers.

I speak here today also as a first nation indigenous person who has seen over the years, right from childhood to the present, how our communities are.... I appreciate Loretta Burnstick's comment in regard to looking at the core issues, the fundamentals in our community.

Again, this is my perception. What I see is a lack, over the years as we progress, of a code of ethics and of adhering to that code of ethics with our indigenous values. With the current system and the default policy it's centred around, there are no repercussions for breaking a code of ethics. In the past, prior to the Europeans coming, there were consequences, and it wasn't a slap on the wrist or whatever. There were always consequences if you broke certain codes.

In regard to the default management, after talking to Wayne Helgason and thinking about it a lot more, I equate the whole thing.... My wife is from Brazil, and they're going through that whole issue of political corruption, where the institute is being questioned. I'm very knowledgeable of that process, and making the people accountable is difficult. I talk to my wife. As I say, she's from Brazil, where it's very similar to first nations indigenous people's communities in that corruption becomes a part of culture. You do not know the difference between right and wrong.

It was rather interesting, even with the capacity building. My wife has friends who were university-educated in the United States, Canada, and elsewhere, just as first nations people are educated in institutions outside our communities. You can have capacity, but if you're operating in a cosmos or an area where there's no right or wrong, and no prosecution of doing right or wrong, then you can have professional people with capacity who break the rules.

Hence, when I was looking, I was surprised that the federal government has the Conflict of Interest Act, the provincial government has a conflict of interest act, the municipalities have conflict of interest acts, where there's prosecution should someone break these instruments. There are repercussions. If they have a strong conflict of interest act.... Brazil has a conflict of interest act, but they conveniently take out certain clauses or they don't prosecute. There's no accountability to enforce a policy.

First nations have policies, and you can have policies, laws, and the whole thing, but if they're not implemented or there's no consequence, the problem still continues.

I think one of the key issues is governance. You have to have strong governance structures in order to build capacity. You can have professionals in the administration aspect of it, and if there are no boundaries set in a code of ethics, like we traditionally had, there will be a lot of grey areas. In regard to a first nation indigenous person in an election, with social media nowadays, you could have documentation showing outright misappropriation of funds, and the individuals could get elected because the people don't know what is right and wrong.

That barrier is broken. I'm not saying it's happening in all the communities, because a lot of the communities aren't affected. They don't need rules or regulations or whatever, but they have that code of ethics still in there, and they practise it. We work with a lot of communities that are not under third party management. They hire financial advisers just to do the areas where they're weak. Those communities are firmly grounded in their traditional values, compared with other communities that are not.

Let's say the policy cannot be blanket, but creating an instrument where there are consequences would seriously help even the default management policy. They may have it, but I would say if there are consequences, they may not even use it in the future.

Those are my opening comments. I'll turn the floor to Lorne.

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

You have three minutes left.

9 a.m.

Lorne Cochrane Managing Partner, Indigenous Management Group Inc.

Thank you. My name is Lorne Cochrane. I'm from the Fisher River Cree Nation.

I've been involved in first nations' businesses and lives for all my life obviously, but I first got involved in politics in 1989. I was the chief of my community. I left there and joined the federal government as the associate RDG and the RDG. I had numerous issues with respect to the policy on default from day one.

It's still before us. I mean, everything is punitive in the government's eyes when they take action. They don't promote progress. They don't promote good governance. Maybe if we spent more time in those areas, we would be bringing people along rather than pulling them back to an area where we have to have discussions on default.

I'm currently sitting on the fiscal advisory committee with the AFN in Minister Bennett's office. It's troubling to be having discussions that we had over 30 years ago. My community alone was one of the first to sign the flexible transfer agreement. It has been changed so many times, unilaterally, by the federal government that it's hurting our development and our growth. I think it's under the guise that we're progressing too far and leaving others behind, and I say that with no disrespect. Success is always linked to opportunity, and if you don't take hold of it at the time and have the tools, you're going to lose it and still have these discussions with respect to default management.

Even our default management policy, which we have to go by, takes up so much time and drives away prospective partners, not only in business but with financial institutions and others. A lot of the banks are backing away from dealing with first nations. That's unless you have trusts and everything else, when of course they want your business.

I'm hopeful in going forward that there are some initiatives that are more progressive in terms of dealing with communities and then bringing others along, rather than bringing everybody back to a level playing field or progressing too far.

So many unilateral changes impact our communities, that whether you're in a flexible agreement or a contribution agreement is very prescriptive. I don't know if there's a willingness or a desire to make significant changes in that direction, but if we don't, we're still going to be having this discussion 20 years from now. Our children can't afford to wait that long.

We hear a lot about the challenges across Canada. I've been involved in this business for the last 30 years, and it's getting frightening. You're hearing so much frustration from the grassroots, who have nothing. What do they have to lose? You hear talk like that. I've visited about every reserve in Manitoba. I've attended community meetings over the last 30 years in every one of those communities, and it's sad that we have that situation.

Hopefully we can open a good dialogue this morning. I want to give you thanks for giving us the opportunity to be here. Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

Thank you.

Now we're moving to our third presenter, Wendy Harris from the Canadian Executive Service Organization. Go ahead, Wendy.

9:05 a.m.

Wendy Harris President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Executive Service Organization

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you also to the honourable members of the standing committee for inviting us here today. We're delighted to participate in the review of the default prevention and management policy and to provide our point of view. It's an honour to be on the panel with my cohorts today.

For over 50 years CESO has operated in many countries around the world and in partnership with indigenous communities in Canada. Because we work both nationally and internationally where we leverage key learnings and best practices, we hope to bring a unique perspective to the study. CESO is a not-for-profit, volunteer sending, international, economic development organization. We firmly believe that a strong economic infrastructure lies at the heart of sustainable change, both economic and social, including the eradication of poverty.

For CESO economic infrastructure means two things. First of all it means supporting the development of the private sector, particularly micro, small, and medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, the key drivers of any economy, whether developing, emerging, or mature. SMEs play a unique and important role in setting the rate of economic growth, and according to the UN, account for two of every three new jobs worldwide. We know indigenous-owned SMEs are growing at a rate six times faster than those of non-indigenous Canadians. Combined with a surging indigenous youth demographic these trends indicate a tremendous economic growth potential for indigenous communities in the coming years and also for the Canadian economy more broadly.

The second part of a strong economic infrastructure is about creating an inclusive environment to support private sector growth. This means strengthening the management and governance of institutions, consistent with many of the comments of my colleagues today. This is whether we're talking about band or tribal councils, trade or industry associations, civil society organizations or co-operatives. From our experience, whether working here in Canada or around the world, quality governance is always a major indicator of whether economic development and social development will be both successful and sustainable.

By quality I mean its ability to effectively manage, plan, and execute on the complex priorities of a given community and in a holistic manner that drives prosperity forward. When governance capabilities are strong and inclusive there's an ability to invest and reinvest in both social and economic programming from multiple angles. This is, in our experience, how economic stability is achieved over time.

Regardless of where we are working the main objective of our work is always capacity development. A non-negotiable aspect of our approach is that our work is locally driven. It is entirely focused on building the skills and experience of our clients and partners to support their goals and priorities. Our expert volunteers transfer their knowledge and skills to our clients who then develop the tools they need to become not only the owners, but the creators of their own long-term stability and prosperity. This approach contributes to self-sufficiency and resiliency long after our work is done.

Essentially the policy is a tool used by the Canadian government to stop a financial situation from deteriorating further. It's intended to get a community back on track in financial reporting so funds can flow to the community. Perhaps I will leave it to others to determine the success of the policy in achieving this objective. I want to speak directly to the standing committee today about where I see a tremendous gap, a gap that can be filled at the earliest level of warning and even before the policy is actioned. This gap is capacity development.

The current policy fails to address the capacity development of a community, whether proactively at the earliest warning or once the community has moved into either co- or third party management. This is simply because third party managers aren't tasked with building skill and knowledge. They are tasked to go in and stop the bleeding. However, based on our lengthy experience in economic development, both here in Canada and around the world, the only way to achieve sustainable change is by building local capacity.

If the knowledge, the experience, and the skills are not absorbed into the community and by the actual individuals charged with their responsibility, the cycle of crisis continues. Focus needs to be placed on unlocking the local potential and building the capacity to ensure that solutions are both achievable and sustainable. This approach ensures a bottom-up strategy that encourages autonomy over dependency, and never replaces, only empowers, local resources. Until this or another policy better addresses that gap, the intervention tool will be used more often and for longer than anyone wants it to be.

We recommend that at the earliest signs of financial management risk or financial deterioration, the intervention comes instead in the form of capacity development, through training and mentorship, to proactively keep communities out of co-management and third party management. Specifically, when a community’s governing body has developed strong financial management and governance capacity, it can start to plan and to build long-term economic predictability and stability. The community can also begin engaging effectively with the mainstream economy. The stronger the governance capability, the greater the ability for an individual, community, or, as in our work internationally, a country or even a multinational region, to develop and strengthen critical social and economic initiatives. Internationally, for instance, our work strengthening local tax and audit capacity clearly shows the link between this and the ability to invest sustainably in economic and social programming.

Taxation and sound auditing practices play a tremendously important role in furthering sustainable development, not only from a reinvestment perspective but also concerning regulatory accountability and transparency. However, our clients and partners often face multiple barriers and challenges in developing these types of skills and knowledge. CESO’s roster of volunteers includes many experienced financial services experts who bring their knowledge and expertise—and, by extension, the expertise of Canadian financial and regulatory institutions—to support the capacity-building development of clients. This development then ripples throughout the given community or country in various ways, leading to a more resilient and adaptable environment for communities and individuals to thrive.

The role that CESO can play in the prevention of default management is to first work in partnership with communities to build their readiness to engage in economic opportunities. We work closely with communities on building those fundamentals, such as strong governance, leadership development, financial management and stewardship, human resource management, strategic planning, and many more—all elements critical to successfully developing long-term economic stability and resilience. But we also work with small business owners and entrepreneurs on the various areas of skills and capacity they need to build, stabilize, and grow their businesses successfully, creating those all-important autonomous source-revenue streams.

Second, CESO can play a complementary role, working collaboratively or in parallel with such indigenous organizations as the FNFMB, AFOA, and NACCA. It’s important to underscore that we are not an alternative to these organizations. Rather, we complement their objectives. We are the partner who can operationalize the capacity development required to move through certification and to ultimately access capital markets, a truly transformational opportunity for communities.

In conclusion, it is our firm position that the current policy does not address the lack of financial management and governance capacity within communities, a fundamental cause of the need for intervention in the first place. We see these two areas of competency as critical building blocks of a strong economic infrastructure necessary for a community to further develop both economic and social initiatives and to support its prosperity and stability.

As such, our main recommendation is that a major focus be placed on investing in community capacity development long before the policy is enacted. In doing so, we will proactively reduce the need for the policy itself. We will set the stage for autonomous, long-term social and economic growth. Finally, we will help create the conditions for true reconciliation.

Thank you for inviting us to share our perspective today. I look forward to questions.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

Thank you very much.

The question period starts with MP Michael McLeod.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all who presented today. This is a very complicated issue before us.

I'm from the Northwest Territories. I've had the opportunity to work as a band manager for my community, and I've also been the mayor of my hometown in the Northwest Territories. In my experience, I've watched as the municipal government develops, with a lot of support from the Government of the Northwest Territories, an integrated community plan. They get together, they do town planning, they plan for infrastructure complemented with an energy plan, they have emergency plans, they do financial planning, and they have ongoing training for their councillors, for their managers.

On the flip side, with the aboriginal governments, there is relatively nothing. The federal government and the regional office don't really do a whole lot. There is core funding provided, with some money for management, and they're kind of left to fend for themselves.

I really appreciate the comments by the Canadian Executive Service Organization on capacity development because that is a real weakness.

I see two areas that are causes for entering a situation where you need to have intervention. One is being underfunded. We've seen funding reduce over the last 10 years or so to a point where it has become almost impossible to operate. The core funding has been reduced to just bare-bones funding. Really, who can they hire to manage it? They sometimes have the chief try to manage it, or they bring in somebody they can't afford, or they'll just hire somebody in the area who knows a little bit about financial management. They are always either underfunded or under-managed, or both.

How we deal with recovery and with developing a recovery plan is a question that I have today. Should we, as a government, send in outside consultants to just take over to try to salvage what they can and keep things moving forward? Or should the community be the one to develop a recovery plan and a way to get out of the mess it ends up in?

I'll just give each organization a few minutes to answer.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

We have three and a half minutes for a response.

9:20 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Executive Service Organization

Wendy Harris

Thank you very much.

To put it briefly, I believe that a key to success is having community ownership, engagement, and involvement in the recovery plan. I think carte blanche control of that by outside consultants or whoever, or outside resources, if it's not a partnership with the community and if there is no parallel investment in capacity development so that can be taken over—

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT

Maybe you could just tell me who should be doing that because the communities don't have those kinds of resources. I'm assuming that you're saying that the federal government should be.

9:20 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Executive Service Organization

Wendy Harris

From a financial perspective, that investment from the federal government has to be there. For long-term, sustainable solutions, that investment needs to be there, so it's professionals coming in who can work with the communities to help unlock the potential, to plan for the future, to create a blueprint of what the community wants to achieve. I think it's very important that the finances around that support success, whether it's in terms of, as you said, not just more funding but funding tied to performance in this area.

Thank you.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

Would you like to hear from Edmonton? Okay.

Go ahead, Loretta.

9:20 a.m.

Finance Clerk, Finance Department, Alexander First Nation, As an Individual

Loretta Burnstick

I think it would be both the government and the community working together to address those issues. People in the community know what the problems are.

Again, it's the supports that we don't have, in terms of expertise, finances, that sort of thing, I guess in collaboration with the government. In some cases, we don't have the capacity to progress. For example, we have a band office that's barely standing. Those are the kinds of issues that need to be looked at so that we can continue to progress. I've said it as clearly as I can that we need help. In my community, most people are willing to work with....

The other thing is that they've been kept out of the discussions for so long, as grassroots people. I think they would welcome that in so many ways, to have their voices heard as to what they feel they need most in their communities. To be able to have that dialogue with the federal government, I think would be really good for the grassroots people as well.

9:20 a.m.

Managing Partner, Indigenous Management Group Inc.

Lorne Cochrane

One of the things we do in my community is that when we're running into issues with respect to finances or over-expenditures, we have meetings and engage all our directors, our committees, our community, and develop a management action plan. We need to get people's buy-in to be effective, so we don't have to deviate from the long-term planning and sustainability of our community. We need to engage community members and empower them to become engaged in all the aspects of governance.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

Thank you. That was succinct.

Now we're going to move the questioning over to MP Cathy McLeod.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for attending today and your very compelling testimony

I appreciate a lot of the comments. When you look at the default prevention and management policy, it's very much a top-down approach. We heard about the importance of creating capacity and capability. We've also heard about the importance of community and community information.

Certainly the transparency act was an attempt to ensure that community members have access to basic information. When I was a mayor of a small town, my community had every ability to hold me to account. To me, it's all part of a package. If we're developing capacity and we're developing capacity in communities, information is the first piece.

Of course, with this government, one of the first things they did was to say they weren't going to enforce the transparency act.

I'd like to talk to Loretta.

You talked to CBC quite a while ago, in October, about the frustration of information and getting spun around. We brought that up with the minister in November, and she just said, the “chief and council report to their members and to my department. That is the way it is, and we will review any additions or reviews with first nations as we go forward.”

Can you tell me, how is getting access to information in your community—?

9:25 a.m.

Finance Clerk, Finance Department, Alexander First Nation, As an Individual

Loretta Burnstick

It's very difficult.

There are a number of people who have asked for financial information. I know personally that when I asked about where our money was going years back, I was told to go to Indian Affairs and they would give me a copy of the audit. When I went to Indian Affairs, they sent me back to the band. They wouldn't give me a copy of the audit.

It's virtually impossible, as a band member, to get full disclosure on our finances. We have no say as to where our money should go, for the most part. I know we're probably underfunded, but we're kept out.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Your community has not posted statements since the compliance measures were dropped. Is that accurate?

9:25 a.m.

Finance Clerk, Finance Department, Alexander First Nation, As an Individual

Loretta Burnstick

No, they haven't. For the most part, again, we don't have consistent community meetings where our budgets are presented and where the audits are presented.

I need to go a little further than that. I think there is some concern even with the budgets and the way they are presented. Most people who work in finance know that audits are made up of bottom line figures. There's always concern around transparency in those audits, so a number of people in my community have come up with recommendations. We want enforceability of accountability and transparency. We need that. We need somewhere to go if somebody is not complying with what our rights are.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

I understand that the decision by the minister was made because some of the chiefs and certainly the AFN did not like this particular act.

We have National Chief Bellegarde coming in the next panel. Is there anything you would like to say to him in terms of how you think things should move forward with regard to ensuring that community members get access to the basic information?

I happen to believe that this top-down approach is not the way to go, and empowering community members to hold leadership to account is ultimately a hugely important piece of this puzzle.