Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Rémi, you have a minute remaining, if you'd like to make any use of it; otherwise, we can put it forward.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Right.

I will wrap up quickly by saying that language is very important. You mentioned that. An important aspect for the communities I represent is ensuring that education is carried out with respect for their culture and language.

Perhaps you could speak more about the importance of education in Mi'kmaq, for example.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Absolutely. It's very important. In the past, it was considered an extra, but now it is essential to include security for the culture and the language in the budget allocated to the schools and the communities. In fact, personal security and cultural security are extremely important for the success of students and for their future.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Thank you.

The next question is from Todd Doherty.

Are you sharing your time, or is it five minutes?

Okay. Go ahead, please.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Bennett.

There are no two ways about it; your passion shines through for this file. For that, I commend you, and I commend your office for the work that you've helped me with in my riding of Cariboo—Prince George.

I do have some concerns, though, and I think our colleague who was here earlier also shares some, and colleagues from my party as well. It's on clarity of a plan moving forward. All the passion in the world still leads to failure when you don't have a plan. I think the concern is that we're growing hope and building hope with no plan behind it. We're throwing money at programs that, in your own admission, are broken, and there's no plan behind it. That's just a statement.

I'm going to go back to UNDRIP, if I can. Articles 26 to 32 caused some real concerns, and there needs to be clarity around that.

In reading UNDRIP as it is today, could articles 26 through 32, in your understanding, have an effect on our existing ports and airports and major transportation routes?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Now you see my colleague Romeo shaking his head.

That's not what anybody wants.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

There needs to be clarity.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I want to say, Todd, that I was grateful to see your passion in receiving us in Prince George and for being there. Your town has had some of the worst with the Highway of Tears, and a judge and a medical examiner and the youngest serial killer.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

And the Tsilhqot'in land claims decision and the New Prosperity mine—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

You have a lot going on there, and Tsilhqot'in as well. You demonstrate that this is not a partisan issue.

I think we do want a plan. We do want to set some targets that will not only be about getting land claims being settled but also about high school leaving and all of those things. We're in the business together, trying to set some targets and get enough clarity that people aren't worried about—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Would it affect, in your mind, ports, airports, and major infrastructure that currently exist and that could be on traditional or formerly traditional territory?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

It's never been about taking lands away or expropriating. It's about planning together going forward.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I know. I understand that, but it also calls for fair and equitable compensation if that is not available. Has that been considered as we move forward?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Yes. The plan is to recognize existing rights and title and compensate appropriately. We have to do that.

I live in Toronto. The land claim for Six Nations would be in the trillions. They aren't interested in bankrupting the Government of Canada on their land claim. They are interested in figuring this out. What they were promised in the Haldimand Tract never happened, so we have to figure that out.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay.

My next question goes to your mandate letter. It is about one of the points that for me is most important, because without education we can't lift people up.

Maybe you could clarify this point for me. With respect to first nations educations, have you considered comparability of education to be a priority? Do you feel that someone given a grade on reserve would be able to seamlessly transfer to off-reserve education? If you support comparability, what do you plan to do to ensure that education investments mirror that as we move forward?

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

You're left with 10 seconds, I'm afraid, Minister.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

That's what we should aspire to. The kids should be able to switch schools, but we also know the number finishing high school. We know that if kids don't make that transition from learning to read to reading to learn by grade 3, they will fake their way through until they drop out in early high school. We have to know what's going on.

That means it's not just putting kids through. It means dealing with adult literacy. It means dealing with all of the things that are the elements of success for these kids. We need them to be successful. We need them to get to post-secondary education and help our country go forward.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Has it been considered in your plan—

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

I'm sorry, but we're right out of time. In fact, we're over time.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

It's about results, Todd, yes. It's not about money. It is about money, but it's also about results.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

This leaves us with time for the final question of this afternoon, which goes to Romeo Saganash, or perhaps you're sharing time. I'm not sure.

You have five minutes.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

Before I go into my first question, I sense the insecurity or the fear that has been expressed by some members on this side of the table with respect to UNDRIP and FPIC. I want to remind people here that in interpreting declarations or the law, you don't read articles in isolation. You have to read the document in its entirety, so when we only make references to the provisions that contain the “free, prior, and informed consent”, it's sort of a mistake.

I want to remind people that article 46 of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, at paragraph 3, says:

The provisions set forth in this Declaration shall be interpreted in accordance with the principles of justice, democracy, respect for human rights, equality, non-discrimination, good governance and good faith.

That's how it works.

Back in 1975 when the Cree signed the first modern treaty, the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement, I still recall how the hunting and fishing associations thought that if the Cree were given the right to hunt, fish, and trap throughout the year, there would go the moose population, there would go the caribou population, and there would go the fish population in the territory. It never happened. The world did not stop turning that day. It was the same thing in 2004 when the Haida Nation case came down. The world did not stop turning. It was the same thing in Tsilhqot'in. The world did not stop turning. Let's stop this fearmongering.

My first question is about some of the gaps in targets that should be set by your department in terms of considering these supplementary credits. What specific targets has the minister or the department established for housing, education, safe drinking water, infrastructure, health outcomes, and so on and so forth? These are questions that are also in your mandate letter, where you have to make real progress.

I noted that the language in the mandate letter omits that enumeration. Perhaps you can speak on that first.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Language and culture are in the mandate letter of Minister Joly, but there's no question that I see language and culture as part of my mandate in early childhood education, in K to 12, and in anything we do. This is the only way that we're going to have kids being successful. In the way forward, I see it as understood in my mandate.

With regard to the targets, I think that even in language and culture we need to be setting targets about the languages that might be disappearing or how many language speakers there are in each of the languages. I think we can do a good job by just measuring that. There are also conversations I'd have with Minister Joly about making sure there are digital recordings of language speakers and that they are protected in the way that we now can.

On the other targets, the platform was really clear about water advisories being stopped within five years, but you and I know that there are a lot of places that don't even have water to boil. There are places that don't have any taps to turn on. In northern Manitoba, it's shocking. We are pleased that a lot of the provinces and territories have decided to help us with this, but we're going to have to get this thing done.

With regard to housing and education, we will have a retreat as a department. In accordance with the Prime Minister's mandate to us, we will deal with deliverology, but even setting realistic targets has to be done in partnership with first nations, Inuit, and Métis.

What's realistic? I remember being part of targets that said Canadians will be 10% more physically active by such-and-such a time, but nobody had even talked to anybody or figured out how they were going to do it.

What, by when, and how are part of the strategy, but the “what” has to be realistic. Otherwise, people give up. I'm very keen that it's something that maybe.... For any of these things, we would love to have the committee help us. Setting targets is going to be important.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Chair, I have a quick point of order.

Minister Bennett knows my passion for this comes purely, honestly, and with the greatest well-being. This is not out of insecurity and it's not out of fear. It's out of clarity. It goes to my original comment that we need to have clarity in this document.

As here, we need to be leaders. If we are going back to our communities, we need to be able to talk to our constituents about it. I take a little bit of offence to it because I'm deeply passionate about it—