Evidence of meeting #71 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
10:45 a.m.
Coordinator, Treaty and Public Affairs, Essipit Innu First Nation
However, you've given us the opportunity to add some things to our brief. That's the kind of thing we're going to look at. Going beyond that would venture into a legal territory that we don't know enough detail about.
10:45 a.m.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
I'm glad we've had this interaction and that you agree to provide us with more material.
10:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
We're using some flexibility.
The questioning now goes to MP Saganash.
10:45 a.m.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair. Do I have three or five minutes?
10:45 a.m.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
No, I don't think I'll be long.
I asked a question earlier, but you didn't have time to answer it. That's why I wanted to come back to it at the end.
It relates to the process before us that deals with specific claims. You talked about the antagonistic nature of the process. I understand you very well, especially since during this process the behaviour demonstrated by the federal government was often very cavalier, even when it was faced with its constitutional obligations. The government is supposed to act honourably in this process.
I would like your opinion on the recommendation that several witness panels have made since our hearings in Vancouver and Winnipeg, to have an independent process, on the one hand.
On the other hand, I can't help but point out that, despite the January 30, 2017 ruling, when the court agreed with you that it was the fault of the federal government, you still had to continue to bear the burden, because the only hope you have at this point is the settlement of the comprehensive claim for other lands. So this is a treaty that no one knows when it will end. You started your negotiations with the Atikamekw a long time ago. It's been 40 years now.
Despite this favourable court ruling, there is still no settlement in sight. So you continue to bear the burden for all this.
10:50 a.m.
Chief, Band Council, Essipit Innu First Nation
As far as the independent tribunal is concerned, I think that might be a solution, or we could adopt more flexible criteria, because we have clearly demonstrated that the Crown was wrong in our case. The evidence was blatant. So why was it not accepted on our first request? That remains to be defined. However, having an independent tribunal could be a solution, yes.
In terms of compensation related to the favourable ruling for our specific claims case, I think it's impossible for us to get land because of that, but only money. Indeed, within the comprehensive land negotiation, the plan is to obtain many surplus lands. We are talking about all the outfitting lands as well as the lands somewhat adjacent to the Innu Assi, which is the fee simple land. As far as Essipit is concerned, it is about 345 square kilometres. However, this has not yet been done.
Is there a plan B? There is always expansion of the reserve, which we have already begun. We have managed to increase the reserve by half. From 0.4 square kilometres, we are at 0.8 square kilometres. It's pretty ridiculous when you think about it. It might be possible to expand the reserve, but I don't think it will be up to 200 or 300 square kilometres.
10:50 a.m.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Does it seem normal to you that, in spite of a favourable court ruling—I don't think the government has deemed a judicial review of this ruling necessary—it would be impossible to do justice to you, further to the process you participated in in good faith, as I understand it?
Is it normal for a specific claims process to be dependent on another process, the comprehensive land claims?
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
We had a request from MP Bossio to ask a quick question. You're going to be the wrap-up.
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
I have a number of quick questions.
When I asked my last questions, I gave an overview of a number of issues, and I'd like to confirm that you agree these areas need to be addressed.
Like there is an independent tribunal for the specific claims process, there should be an independent tribunal for the comprehensive claims process, so that once again it's not all on the government side and the negotiations come to naught; they don't go anywhere. Would you agree with that?
10:50 a.m.
Chief, Band Council, Essipit Innu First Nation
Yes, we agree with that.
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Would you also agree, though, that under this independent specific claims tribunal process, and if there's one created for the comprehensive one, they need teeth to be able finalize agreements?
10:55 a.m.
Chief, Band Council, Essipit Innu First Nation
Yes, if the mandate is very broad and has no restrictions.
10:55 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Okay.
As far as the timelines of negotiation go, more efficiencies need to be developed within the negotiation process to shrink those timelines.
10:55 a.m.
Chief, Band Council, Essipit Innu First Nation
Yes. Sometimes, we wonder if the negotiation isn't an industry.
10:55 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Exactly.
That was going to go to the next question to try to head that off. The funding process needs to change so that indigenous communities are not going into debt once again to participate in these negotiations.
10:55 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Not just in negotiation, but that an adequate level of funding be established. I don't know how the criteria would be defined around the research that goes into these claims.
He's nodding yes, just for the record.
10:55 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Finally, and one that I think doesn't get enough attention, is public education, in terms of the historical injustices that occurred, the cultural continuity that is so important for a community. Education needs to start very early in the process, progress through the process, and continue after the process has been completed so people fully understand why the process was initiated in the first place, the importance of finalizing the process, and the actual benefit that can accrue to all communities in and around the process so that we eliminate the unfounded fear that is associated with the whole claims process.
10:55 a.m.
Chief, Band Council, Essipit Innu First Nation
Yes.
I wouldn't talk just about education, but transparency as well. I would go even further than education. I wish that, once and for all, in Quebec and in Canada, we would begin to teach the true story. I am proud to be Innu, and I would like Quebeckers and Canadians who go to elementary school to know the true history of Quebec.