Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on April 14th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave it there, Dr. Kirlew. Thanks.

We're moving into the next round of questions.

The first five-minute question goes to David Yurdiga.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I would also like to thank the witnesses for being here today. Obviously this is a concern for everyone. Your testimony is very heart wrenching because we all want people to do well. I have grandchildren and I couldn't imagine them being without services. We have to move forward and we have to ensure that what we do will be for the betterment of everyone.

Going back to the budget, budget 2016 has proposed additional investments in housing, community infrastructure, and water systems. In your opinion, are the proposed measures in the 2016 budget sufficient to address the current state of health emergency and prevent any future ones?

[Grand Chief Jonathan Solomon]

The system has been broken for far too long. It's going to take effort and dedication from the government to close the gap. In my region, we amalgamated two systems of health care in 2007. From day one that organization has been running a deficit to this day. It's over $20 million in the hole.

That paints a very clear picture to how under-resourced the health care system is in the North. It's trying to fit everything as it is in Ottawa or Toronto, but it doesn't work. That is why I agree with the regional chief. There's got to be a mechanism where there's a delivery system in the region because of the logistics or the remoteness factor. Is that going to change if we continue with the status quo? I don't think so. You're going to continue having declarations until we roll up our sleeves and say, “Let's do it”.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Since the declaration was issued, what actions have been taken, and what actions remain to be taken?

[Grand Chief Jonathan Solomon]

We're reaching out so we can start working together, start talking together, because decisions that are made in Ottawa or Toronto, for that matter, don't work in northern Ontario. They don't. It's been like that since time immemorial. Policies or decisions are made in Ottawa or Toronto.

We need to start thinking outside of this jurisdiction here or the boundary in the cities because there are northern communities that are confronted by challenges. It's no wonder our communities are in the condition they're in, even the condition the health care system is in, because we're trying to work within the premise of an urban community. It just doesn't work and it will never work. Never.

[Chief Isadore Day]

Thank you, Grand Chief Solomon.

I'm going to point out one thing with regard to your previous question. The cost of doing nothing is huge. We need to look at the impact of the last 10 years, set that aside, and begin to do some damage control there.

With respect to what's been done and what's working, again, turning to our communities and recognizing that we've got the best of the best on the ground. They're strong. They're resilient. They know the people.

Through the Honouring our Strengths framework, that looked at addictions and mental health, there's been some good work done with nothing, but now we need the investment. In AFN's budget submission on mental wellness, it included mental wellness teams to reach all communities; new funding for 80 new teams, at $500,000 each; crisis response teams via the expansion of a national aboriginal youth prevention strategy; capital to ensure safety and maintenance of national native drug and alcohol programs and treatment centres; capital for five new treatment centres, healing centres, as per the TRC calls for action; extension of the Indian residential schools resolution health support programs, also to be utilized during the missing and murdered indigenous women inquiry process.

One of the demographics that go unnoticed is people with disabilities. We need to recognize that in our communities, we have so many that are so underfunded, under-focused. These people are suffering in silence. We need to focus on people with disabilities as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Thank you, Chief.

The next five minutes of questions are for Michael McLeod.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you to the panel for presenting.

I'm from the Northwest Territories, so I've heard a lot about the issues you're talking about. I have a lot of similarities in my area. The suicide rate in the Northwest Territories is double the national average.

It's the year 2016, and suicide and self-inflicted injuries are among the leading causes of death among our aboriginal people. It is amazing that this is still happening.

As we start to talk about the whole issue of suicide, we know that people who die from suicide or who attempt suicide are people who are usually overwhelmed. They're feeling hopeless and helpless. They're in the pit of despair. Look at aboriginal communities and the high unemployment. A lot of communities I represent have well over 60% unemployment.

Also, we have people who are addicted to drugs and alcohol because of trauma and post-traumatic stress disorder, and we don't have services to deal with that. On a daily basis in my community, I hear air medevacs coming and going. It's really scary to see that happening, because these are communities where I have relatives. These are my people.

I know why we don't have the services. We have people who come in, professionals who want to help, and they realize the health services are not there for their children. We have teachers who come for the short term and leave. The RCMP come and then leave. They're not going to stay in a community where there are no services and the education system is failing them.

The band councils in the communities right across Canada have been cut to the bone. NGOs have been cut to where they can't operate. Who is left to deal with the issues in our communities? The chiefs? All they're given is a title. They don't have a budget to work with, really. There's no pot of money you can dip into to help the communities. We share a lot of the problems.

One of the things that I was getting a little nervous about in your presentation was that were talking about the social side of things, but I think that in order to deal with some of the problems that have plagued the communities—and I heard this during my campaign—we have to face it and move forward with a multipronged approach. Economic development is one of the things that I would really like to see. We have good people in our communities. We have smart people in our communities. We have people who are wanting to work. We are lacking infrastructure, so why don't we try to approach it on that front? I'm really interested in hearing about how you would see the economic side of things helping communities to move forward and bringing pride back into the communities.

There are two ways to approach this. We can continue to subsidize communities and try to put in social programs, or we can build pride in our people by providing them work, developing skills, and creating opportunity for them so that they can build their own houses and can do a lot of things on their own. Right now, that opportunity is missing. I'm really keen to hear from you. You mentioned it a bit and it caught my ear.

[Chief Isadore Day]

Yes. Thank you. I want to leave some opportunity for the Grand Chief to respond to this, because this is something that he's focused on, and it's very pointed in terms of his territory.

Take Attawapiskat as an example. They have a diamond mine right there. Why on God's green earth does Attawapiskat not have access to more benefits coming out of their territory? It has a lot to do with the federal family not working with us with respect to a framework that looks at all the social determinants of health and how to create economies as part of the mix of the solutions going forward. Attawapiskat should not be getting this pittance out of its territory that they're getting now.

There is a need here to recognize that the responsible, ethical, and economical way forward is to clear up this jurisdictional firewall that exists, where first nations do not have first right of refusal to the development that's happening in their territories or access to the capital that will ensure nation building. If they had access to the wealth and resources from that mine, do you think they'd be in the condition they're in now? No. They would have schools. They would have roads. They would have everything they need to be happy and healthy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Grand Chief, you have about 45 seconds.

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler]

I just want to add to that. It is about relationships. It is about investing in our youth. It is about building capacity in our communities for them to be able to meaningfully engage in the economy.

I talked about Neskantaga. They are negotiating on the Ring of Fire development. How can a community like Neskantaga meaningfully negotiate with a big company, with government, if they are worried about access to water for their kids? If they are not getting proper health care and they don't have adequate housing, how can that community meaningfully engage in that process? That is what we need to address.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Thank you.

The next question is from Todd Doherty, on behalf of committee member Cathy McLeod.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you for your time. I'd like to say thank you to our guests today as well. All of your presentations are overwhelming.

Dr. Kirlew, I want to thank you for your dedication to these communities, despite challenging conditions. Your speech today was heard and felt.

A couple of days ago, we had an emergency debate—I'd like to say an emergency discussion—that all parties attended, which was called by our colleague from Timmins—James Bay. Throughout the evening you heard, not blame placed, but talking about action. I think we need to lead from our heart. If I am listening to Grand Chief Solomon and the words he is saying, we have to understand a little more. I am not sure that an hour, or an hour and a half, or eight minutes of presentation give us that understanding of what exactly is going on.

I want to say that $8.4 billion has been committed. If you heard my speech, I did challenge that this is spread out over five years, and we need money spent now; we need a plan formulated now. We need to deal with the immediate emergency. We need to look at the mental health issues, including all the issues that are affecting our communities across Canada.

In your opinion, what are some immediate steps that we can take today to provide action that provides hope and also ensures that the money that is pledged will get to those who need it the most?

[Grand Chief Jonathan Solomon]

Thank you very much.

I was at the House during the emergency debate.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I saw you there.

[Grand Chief Jonathan Solomon]

I was there until it was done. The words that were said had a lot of passion, a lot of compassion. You asked me a question: How do we do this? We need to start investing in infrastructure, because the home environment impacts the well-being of an individual, or even an institution like a school or a health centre. These are the centres of the communities. If you are sharing a room with 14 or 15 other people and you are going to school, and if you have homework and don't have time to do that homework, it is going to impact you mentally.

We need to start investing in infrastructure and also in the mental aspect of it. We need to start investing in mental health, not only for adults. We have to have a mental health program for the children, because right now there is nothing for them. The only thing available to them is the child protection agency that's in our region, and once you mention child protection agency, the first thing that comes into their minds is that they are going to lose their children. That is the first thing that enters their minds. We have to invest in the young people so they have a brighter future, so they have hope and certainty, and the family circle will grow to a better future.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

The other comment that was made, and I'm going to use the same response that I used during the MMIW conversation we had, there have been a number of reports countless studies done. What can we do? What can we collectively do to make sure that we leave a legacy of action, not another report on a shelf?

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler]

I think that's one reason we're here today, to appeal to you, the committee, to work with us in implementing these reports, like the one I referenced. This came out last year, April 25—it's almost a year. There's so very little follow-up to that. I think we need to agree on certain things. One of them could be that we immediately agree on how we will implement these recommendations that are contained in this report. That's just one report. There are others.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

We'll have to leave it there. Thank you.

The next questioner is Mike Bossio, please.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you, all of you, for being here today. Thank you so much for sharing your concerns, for sharing your stories. They're very informative and very heartfelt.

To me, so many questions have been asked that have been very specific. I'd like to try to take it to a different level. I can't imagine what it's like being in your communities. The only way that I can relate is when you talk about the urban versus rural reality. I have a very rural riding. I know that so many times they try to overlay urban methods and processes onto the rural areas, and you're right, it doesn't work. Rural people know how best to serve rural people in the most effective way.

When the minister was here, I posed the question to her. We have this operational budget and we have this grant budget. The grant budget is massive, and the operational budget is a pittance. How do people serve their people when their hands are tied because they have to apply for these grants? I imagine that you would agree that if we could take that massive grant budget and put it into the operational side, and say, here is the budget you have to work with; you set the priorities as to how you feel that budget should be allocated.... In other words, it's self-determination.

I guess I'd like to ask you this. It's something I am certainly going to advocate for, and I hope the committee will come along on this at some point. If you had that ability, how would you prioritize that this money would be spent in your communities? I know it's a huge question, but I hope you can try to address that.

[Chief Isadore Day]

I think you raise a very good point. Again, proposal-based funding is not all of what we need right now. You're absolutely right.

I go back to the point that I made about the culmination of impact of non-funding and the funding cuts. We need to transition into a transformative health framework in this country. We need to recognize that first nations need to be part of the health accord process. The federal minister has brought us to the table. We fought for that and we're there.

We need to recognize that there's a very broken system we need to mitigate now. I think we need to get a commitment to augment the 2016 budget, and we need to put a price tag on those very big, damaged, broken areas that need mitigation funding. Let's begin to do the assessment in terms of what financial and fiscal resources are needed to do that over the next three years.

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler]

One of my colleagues, one of the chiefs I work with always uses this line when we meet with government officials, “Nothing about us without us.” When it comes to talking about issues that impact our communities, whether it's climate change, whether it's education, health care, we need to be there. We need to be involved. We need to be meaningfully engaged in the process because what you develop in Ottawa, whether it's policy, legislation, law, it impacts us in ways that sometimes put lives at risk, or sometimes we lose people. I think it's important that we have a dialogue like this, but we need to carry that forward in a meaningful way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Go ahead, please.

[Grand Chief Jonathan Solomon]

Yesterday, I brought my two boys to the Hill. I pointed to this building and said that this was where their future is decided. We have to change that. Like the grand chief said, we have to be at the table moving forward.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I should have asked whether you would want us to advocate for that type of funding arrangement, where it's operational and not grant-based, so that you have that self-determination over your budgets.