Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2017

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

I think there has to be. I like to believe there is. If I didn't, I'd get out of the business altogether if there's no hope. I think we have a story to tell, we have a story to share, and we have experiences that not a lot of communities have gone through. We're prepared to share that story, the policies, and the procedures. We believe that we need to start thinking ahead.

This is the new norm. This is going to continue to happen, whether it's fires or floods or whatever. In B.C. and in the interior, in 2010, we talked about a fire centre and developing that, and that's back on the table. I'm pushing as hard as I can to establish not only a fire and evacuation centre, but most importantly, a training facility to train members. Why is there no such facility anywhere in B.C. to train people for this type of situation?

We had CRD, the City of Williams Lake, do an evacuation order. I still can't figure out why they did that evacuation order because 13 days later nothing had changed, only that the fires were closer and they invited everybody back into the city. I made a recommendation to local MP Todd Doherty, somebody I grew up with. I said, ”You have to have a forum in Williams Lake. People have lost faith in that system. You have to talk and bring people in because if you don't do that, the next time there's a real threat, people aren't going to leave, and you're going to need more than an army to remove people from that city.”

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

The other thing you talked about was your previous experience of being evacuated and hearing those comments that were quite frankly quite racist. I'm just wondering if you think there is a need to start training volunteers for any community across Canada that may face these kinds of challenges when they're dealing with emergency services.

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

Any volunteers, anybody who represents any form of government, should have first nations training, sensitivity training, whatever. Why is it that at the first sign the RCMP officers are threatening to remove children? It's just boom, at the first sign of any confrontation, “Oh, we're going to take your kids.” Not here, not in this community.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

It's sad that it has not changed. If we talk about reconciliation, it's really about stopping threatening to take the children away.

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

Have faith in our system. The biggest thing, when I come out here, is that I'm proud of my community and for what happened there. People, especially the young people, saw all of this unfold. When that RCMP officer did that, it was very emotional for the women in our community. A lot of the women came up and told me that they didn't believe anybody had ever stood up for them like that. Now our young people watch all of this and they're taking all that in and they're learning. Everyone who could work was working.

Over the years in politics you often hear people showing up and saying, “Oh, but you're not providing jobs and opportunity.” The biggest critics, I couldn't find them all summer. I had jobs for them and they were all hiding from me. I have an eight-year-old nephew and he was really upset because he didn't have a job. Finally, my younger brother told him, “You're going to be the night watchman at the house, so every night you have to go to every window and make sure there's no fire anywhere.” He was so proud.

We had that all throughout our community. Young people are confident now that they can do this. That's the biggest thing in the first nation community because we've been told over and over again, “You can't do this.”

We have a report, this fancy little report. It wasn't a white person we got in to do that. It was one of our own people. It's full of detail. This is only one phase of the fire. We had interviews with certain members in our community, random people in our community, and it's from their perspective, and now we're going into the second phase. That's community meetings and stuff, and then the third will be the EOC and the firefighters.

But every step of the way, you have to stand up and be prepared to fight for your community.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Okay.

Let's get some questions from MP Salma Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair

Thank you, Chief, for your very, very powerful presentation and providing us insight.

My first question is in regard to data collection. We've heard from many of the witnesses during the course of this study that a major issue facing the emergency preparedness response and recovery of indigenous communities is that there are large gaps in data collection related to the frequency of fires, available resources, and the best practices.

Have you noticed in your time working within your community—and I know you have worked very closely in the process of recreation and all that—that there is lack of data, and how can we make sure we have enough data available? What improvements would you suggest, and what data have you found is more useful to help in this?

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

I didn't get all of that question.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

There are data gaps when it comes to whether the community is well prepared regarding the frequency of the fires. What do you think we can do better to make sure we have enough data to help evacuation and then resettlement of the communities?

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

From the government's perspective, I couldn't make a recommendation because I don't really know what the process is like.

However, from my community, my experience as a director of TNG, knowing the importance of keeping proper financial records and all that, I was very strict. Every last thing that was donated, we tagged and monitored. If I didn't have that experience, that wouldn't have happened. Training is everything. You have to train, and you have to know what to expect. That's something that has to be worked on, not just in first nation communities but in all municipalities and any place where there are residents.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Do you collect some data within your community?

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

Do we collect data? What kind of data?

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

In regard to what resources you have available, the frequency of the fires, and what is the best useful information.

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

If we had more resources, we definitely would. We could start recording a lot of that kind of stuff.

Like I said, we were in a $5-million deficit when I took over my community, and you have to be selective on where you're going to spend those resources. A lot of the training dollars that we have to get, we have to apply for funding to get that. We don't have specific dollars that we can spend on this kind of stuff or whatever.

If you want to talk data, it's all in my head.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Okay, so a large step in ensuring emergency preparedness is to take steps, making sure that the members of the community are aware of the resources available and to adequately train them in their use.

In your experience, is there a general knowledge of the resources available in your communities, and across other indigenous reserves that you have been involved with? What is involved in educating the people in your communities about their emergency management plans and the execution of those plans? In regard to youth, have you done something specific in training them?

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

We've trained 400 firefighting crews. We were on version six, and we're now working on version seven of our emergency response policies and stuff. We spend a lot of time.

With other first nations, it's up to the first nation community as to whatever they deem to be priority. Because we've been through so many fires in our area, we make this a high priority. Even upon hiring new employees, we have a copy of our emergency response policy and stuff given to every new employee. As well, there is the message, “If you're going to work for me, I might pay you from 8:30 to 4:30, but I expect you to be a role model 24 hours a day, seven days a week.” I really push that very hard.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Have you shared your plans with the governments or the RCMP, or the other agencies who help in the evacuation of the fires?

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

I don't think any of them believed that we had any plans, so I never shared any of that. They show me disrespect, so why should I show them respect? I don't think any of them believed we had policies until well into the fires. I think it was a shock for them that we had them. “Sure, go through the policies. There they are.”

Our EOC coordinator had that policy book in his hand at all times. With any situation, he would flip to the proper chapters, “It says here that there's a recommendation. This is what we should do.” Other people would also refer to those.

We have very in-depth policy on that, but I don't think other communities have progressed their emergency policies as in-depth as ours. I would actually challenge any community, even municipalities on that. Our policies are probably stronger than theirs.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

After the fire is over, do you have plans how to resettle the communities once the disaster is over? Do you have plans in place to resettle the communities?

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

Resettle...?

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Yes.

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

We've built fireguard upon fireguard. Throughout our communities, we had to do some back-burning and things like that. There's a lot of work here. It's all in the process.

We're almost fearful when we're dealing with the EMBC now. We're telling them this is work that's needed, and asking if they are going to cover that. It's almost like we have to spend a couple weeks negotiating and going through every last aspect before they'll commit to us. Then we carry out the work, and then they go through the whole process again of trying to see if that work was justified.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Questions are now going to MP Waugh.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you for coming here today.

You're speaking relationship issues as to systematic issues. You're an anomaly, if you don't mind my saying. We have sat here for weeks listening to Saskatchewan, to Manitoba, and to parts of B.C. They're not as organized as you are.

Do we need a fire marshal to regulate this issue so that we know that on the ground, you're there. How would we know otherwise? We had Peter Ballantyne from Saskatchewan, we had Manitoba, and we had B.C.

You have boots on the ground. You're on version seven. If I had known that before and that was shared, maybe the reaction of the RCMP officer would be a lot different than it was that day.

[Chief Joe Alphonse]

I would imagine Catherine Lappe, the RDG from Vancouver, didn't have a clue who I was and had never even met me.