Evidence of meeting #97 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was peoples.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Public and Indigenous Affairs and Ministerial Services Branch, Department of the Environment
We get advice from them on a case-by-case basis.
NDP
Assistant Deputy Minister, Public and Indigenous Affairs and Ministerial Services Branch, Department of the Environment
I can't speak to that.
Acting Director General, Indigenous Policy and Coordination, Department of Natural Resources
I hate to do this, but this is where I would play the new kid on the block so I regret that I'm not able to tell you, but I can check back and confirm whether we have advice.
Director General, Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, similarly, like my colleague, Dominique, we work very closely with our legal counsel in terms of supporting the relationships we have with indigenous groups.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
I asked the question, because the government now accepts the 94 calls to action from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. One of the calls to action is to make sure that indigenous people get the legal opinions that governments ask for when it comes to their rights and interests. That's the reason I asked that.
I want to go a bit to free, prior, and informed consent. I think this is an important discussion with respect to Bill C-262, but also to UNDRIP.
Genevieve, I think you mentioned how you're trying to work together with indigenous people in order to get, as you said, the better outcome for different projects. Engaging with them early is also a principle that you expressed.
Is your department or the other departments aware of the human rights committee? Under the human rights committee, there's an expert mechanism on the rights of indigenous people. It did a study in 2011 or 2012 on exactly that question of free, prior, and informed consent.
Have you taken the time to read the study?
Acting Director General, Indigenous Policy and Coordination, Department of Natural Resources
I regret that I have not seen the study.
I would like to see it though.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
If one is to understand what free, prior, and informed consent means in the context of indigenous peoples in this country, one needs to read that report. Our justice system is independent and impartial. It can make reference to any source, including Pam Palmater. If, for Pam, consent means no, then the court can quote her on that. They're free to do that. That's how our legal system works.
I would also like to know what has changed since the election of this new government in terms of our relations with indigenous peoples and their rights and interests. I appreciate Dominique adding the concept of interests in that discussion, because it's not only rights—it includes the interests of indigenous peoples. How soon did the shift in your different departments come, once this government was elected?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Public and Indigenous Affairs and Ministerial Services Branch, Department of the Environment
As everyone here well knows, it was embedded in all of our ministers' mandate letters, which of course informs the direction they provide to departments. The government has been clear and provided subsequent guidance in the form of the principles and Prime Minister's statements, so I think it is fair to say that guidance has definitely informed the work we have been doing.
Many of the examples I gave didn't start with any particular government. They have been ongoing for some period, but as I said, the direction that has been given—starting with the mandate letters and the emphasis that the Prime Minister made in those letters of the need to reinforce the relationship—has guided or prompted us to deepen that work.
Director General, Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
With former Minister Tootoo initially, followed by Minister Leblanc, reconciliation became very much a top priority for the ministers and for the department. I mentioned the program renewal initiative that we had. It represents a significant investment in supporting the economic sustainability of indigenous communities; those programs put emphasis not just on the act of fishing but also on business development and practices and expertise. Really it's about creating—.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
In that case, tell me why it took two years to finally make a proposal to the Nuu-chah-nulth, who've had a positive judicial outcome in their fishing rights case. Why did it take two years to finally make a proposal to them? It's a case in point.
Director General, Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We've been working closely with the Nuu-chah-nulth, the five nations, since 2009 when the decision came down. There have been active negotiations involving both CIRNA and ourselves. We've provided them with significant additional commercial fisheries access. We're working closely to implement their right to preferred means of fishing, and that process is ongoing and enormously complex.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
That concludes your time.
I'm sorry.
We're going to wrap up our question session with MP Badawey. You have about five minutes.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to get right to it because with my past experience in the committees I sit on and caucuses, I'm very happy about this whole process. Not only with UNDRIP and setting the culture and setting the principles as the PM has done in the past year or so, if not longer, but also with Mr. Saganash with the direction he's taken with his private member's bill C-262. I want to congratulate him for that because it does accelerate the process, as was mentioned earlier.
Having said that, now it's time to accelerate the process, to look at education, which I think is first and foremost. When I say education, I don't mean education of the indigenous community, I mean educating us, government and the general public: understanding, establishing, pursuing, and then of course recognizing the outcomes.
The second part of that is putting strategies, the blueprint, in place. How we're going to operate, move forward nation-to-nation, and with that, establishing that strategy, the objectives, the action plans attached to those objectives and then of course most importantly, executing those action plans. Third, as you mentioned earlier, is the alignment based on that culture.
We have the Department of Fisheries, the Department of Transport, the Department of Natural Resources, the Department of Justice. Who is going to facilitate the strategy and therefore establish the outcomes, attach the action plans, and then execute them? We know at the upper levels of government—federal, provincial and territorial—that sometimes things go awry because there's no intergovernmental facilitation.
This is the most important part, establishing that success, and of course the ultimate outcomes. Who is going to facilitate it? The next step is the blueprint, the strategy. Who is going to be the steward? Therefore having this become a reality versus just a culture.
That question is to all of you. Good luck.
Director General, Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
You raise a good point in emphasizing the need for coordination and working together so we're not tripping over ourselves in trying to advance the relationship through exercises we have been going through, broader oceans management initiatives, and marine protected areas that involve Transport Canada and other departments as well.
Yes, it's obviously very important to coordinate but each department, with its own mandate to develop that relationship to meet the rights and interests and objectives of indigenous groups, is the foundation of the relationship. Yes, we need to be cognizant of the relationships among our colleagues and to make sure that we're all working together but also respect the bilateral working relationship that we will have with indigenous groups at the same time.
Director, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
I'll add to that.
I have a different perspective on Bill C-69. As you heard from the first panel that was here, Department of Justice and CIRNA are leading the overarching approach with the principles guiding the governments writ large, but the way in which that has tangibly played out in a very real initiative is with the introduction of Bill C-68 and also Bill C-69.
with the principles guiding the governments writ large but the way in which that has tangibly played out in a very real initiative is with the introduction of Bill C-68 and also Bill C-69.
A number of different acts were all introduced as a comprehensive package. We worked on it very closely with NRCan, DFO, and Transport. There was horizontal coordination, a team, a lot of the elements that you highlighted in trying to ensure there's both an action plan that put it onto the table but that also is supporting it in the strategy going forward. There's enabling legislation but implementation and policy support will follow in a coordinated manner.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Obviously this is a lens that each department is going to have moving forward. To the entire committee and all five sides of the House, this is not political. This is the new norm. If we don't get our act together as a House this is not going to happen.
It's incumbent upon us, all 338 members working with our respective ministries, to make this happen. Otherwise we're going to be talking about this for the next 10 years. Once again, Romeo, you did a great job. Kudos to you. Now it's just a matter of getting it done.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
That concludes our session for today. Thank you very much for coming out.