Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 22nd, 2020

[Chief Charlene Belleau]

I think we could always want more transparency. We should especially have transparency during a crisis, because the uncertainty creates a lot of challenges for our leaders.

In terms of federal resources, I know that currently, at least in British Columbia, we've heard from our chiefs that because we've been really proactive to protect our communities and our elders, resources around security have not been available or we didn't have the resources needed to properly protect our communities.

Food security for sure is another issue. I think again we could do a lot more with federal government support around food security.

There is also an issue of connectivity. Our communities need access to timely and accurate information during COVID-19. A lot of our communities don't even have access to the Internet to allow them to have access the benefits available to them.

I think the federal government could improve on a lot of different things so that our communities are not at risk. That includes the recent release of a federal inmate without a proper process in place to protect the communities and our elders.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have one minute.

[Mumilaaq Qaqqaq, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you so much for that.

Dr. Jock, can you talk a little about the access to mental health and culturally appropriate mental health services? Can you tell us about some of the barriers and challenges you see in your position?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have 30 seconds.

[Richard Jock]

Thank you very much. It's “Mr.” Jock, but thank you.

Generally through our tripartite arrangement, we have developed more mental health services and mental health action teams that are put in place across the province. We took over a system from the federal government that had many gaps, particularly between the federal and provincial systems.

We have developed a lot of the tools to address the gaps.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

We're at time there, Mr. Jock. I'm sorry. We're trying to rush along to get all our questions in before the round is finished.

We'll go now to a five-minute round. I have Mr. Schmale, Ms. Zann, Mr. Vidal and Ms. Damoff.

Mr. Schmale, you have five minutes. Please go ahead.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much.

I appreciate the testimony from our witnesses today.

I can open up to whoever wants to respond. A few weeks ago, we had AFN National Chief Bellegarde at this committee. He mentioned that right now, having policing services on indigenous communities isn't essential. I think he was referring to a 2019 report by the Council of Canadian Academics, which stated that “Jurisdictional ambiguity between federal, provincial/territorial and Indigenous governments has resulted in the development of a “programming and funding” approach to policing that neglects to treat policing as an essential service on reserves as it is in non-Indigenous communities across Canada.”

My first question is with respect to protecting indigenous communities and enforcing public health measures. From a lesson-learned perspective, what value would a local policing authority have on preventing the spread of COVID-19, if any?

[Chief Charlene Belleau]

The RCMP or any police service is really important for our communities during COVID-19, but we've also seen the challenges they face and the lack of their ability to respond to keep our communities safe.

Jurisdiction is another issue. Through our chiefs and front-line workers we have been able to set up security checkpoints within our province to keep our community safe.

The RCMP will come around and be a part of what's happening, but that's not good enough. We know they could play a bigger role. Again, we need to work on this issue going forward. It's not just the security issues; we also need them to respond to the ongoing issue of violence against women.

Again, I'm almost afraid that the RCMP is going to pull off our first nations officers to other duties instead of responding to our communities. We definitely could do with an improved service from the RCMP or from police services within our respective provinces. It would be really helpful for us.

[Richard Jock]

The only thing I would add is that many of the public health measures are enforced by bylaw officers. I would say that's also something that is not typically in place for first nations. There is a kind of double gap there. I wanted to add that to Charlene's comments.

Shannon, do you have anything?

[Dr. Shannon McDonald]

Yes.

It's a legislative gap, provincially. Enforcing action under the Public Health Act is not something that police are required to do or are mandated to do. As Richard said, in many places, bylaw officers, or even environmental health officers, end up being the enforcers of those needs.

The legislative gaps in mandate really get in the way of the police taking specific action on public health issues.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

That's a good point. I want to follow up on that.

Are there any data or experiences with those communities that have an indigenous police service, as opposed to the RCMP, enforcing those public health measures?

As was just mentioned, sometimes they are doing the public health service's job. Are there any stories or anything you can provide to the committee about the difference between one that has an indigenous police service and one that doesn't?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have 30 seconds, please. Thank you.

[Chief Charlene Belleau]

I would think that other provinces may have different jurisdictions. I know that in B.C., we don't have very many police services owned and operated by first nations. We're serviced mostly by the RCMP.

[Richard Jock]

You'd have to go to other provinces where they have their own police forces for that. I have seen that some of them are quite effective, but it's not really our context here in B.C.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

We have Ms. Zann now, for five minutes.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to share my time with Pam Damoff, because we might be running out of time.

First of all, I'd like to say thank you so much to all of the witnesses. It has been very, very interesting testimony.

I'd like to ask Chief Belleau a question.

I would like to acknowledge your important advocacy work for residential school survivors. Here in Nova Scotia, in the land of the Mi'kmaq, it has been a big problem, as you probably know. I want to say thank you, Wela'lin, from the bottom of my heart for all your work on that terrible issue.

Also mentioning that domestic violence against women is rising is so important. I don't have time to ask about it, but I do want to ask about addictions and substance abuse. We know they aren't going to disappear overnight just because COVID-19 has come on our horizon. It's a problem for many Canadians, not just first nations people.

What is the First Nations Health Council doing in conjunction with the Government of British Columbia to address this issue during COVID-19?

[Chief Charlene Belleau]

I know that through our tripartite agreement, our mental health MOU agreement, we have joint partnerships with the Province of B.C. to do work on addiction and mental health issues. Richard would have more detail on the administration of it and implementation of that agreement for some of the specific programs and services.

For sure, the issue of addiction and substance abuse, separate from what happens in the urban areas and away-from-home community members, has been a challenge for our community members as we've gone into lockdown. You heard me say earlier that at least 87 of our communities went into lockdown. In those communities, if there are alcohol problems or drug addiction, there have been some withdrawals. Richard is familiar with some communities where doctors worked closely with the communities to help with safe withdrawals.

I think all of those are important while we go through COVID-19. It's something we've learned and something that we need to continue to build on before there is a second wave.

Again, thank you for the acknowledgement on the residential school work. There is that background in history, the lack of trust, but it's also knowing that we've been able to come together through a settlement agreement to truth and reconciliation. It's that hope for reconciliation that brings us to today. It makes it easier for us to have a level of trust that together we'll get through COVID-19.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have less than two minutes, Ms. Zann. Do you want to go to Ms. Damoff?

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Yes, please. Madam Damoff can take the next one.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thanks, Lenore.

Welcome. I'm asking questions from the traditional territory of the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation. Thank you for joining us.

You talked a lot about your tripartite agreement, which is unique in our country. I had the privilege of meeting you. You are doing incredible things. Could you maybe explain to us why you are unique, how that has been an advantage during the pandemic especially, and how it could serve as a model to be used across the country?

[Richard Jock]

Thank you. I can start, and then I would offer the other witnesses the opportunity to comment as well.

I think part of the opportunity is to make sure that first nations aren't caught in the jurisdictional gaps. I would say that's a big change. Actually, we're fully ingrained in both the federal and provincial processes. I was on daily calls with the CEOs and DMs. Shannon was on the calls with the PHO and on the federal calls. Sonia Isaac-Mann was on the daily ISC calls.

Part of the benefit is that we don't get caught in the same sorts of gaps that exist. We've been able to leverage our opportunities to create new services, such as primary care and some of the mental health support I talked about, and also land-based treatment, with significant investment from the province. In the midst of all of this, we're in an opioid crisis and have been in a mental health crisis, I would say, for many years.

There are many benefits to this agreement and to our approach. I just wanted to summarize them and give our other witnesses a chance to comment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

That is our time. Thanks, Mr. Jock.

Mr. Vidal, you will conclude the five-minute round. Please go ahead.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Jock, I'll allow you to carry on with that thought, because I think Ms. Damoff stole my thunder with that question. Early on in your presentation, I picked up on the tripartite partnerships as the successful model that you talked about, and about how it's resulted in collaboration and data sharing.

To change the direction of the question a little bit from where you just went in response to Ms. Damoff, maybe you could talk a bit about how this tripartite agreement came about. You're ending up with great results, by the sounds of it. What could other jurisdictions learn to address the things you talked about by tearing down some of those jurisdictional silos and whatnot? What was successful in getting you there?

[Richard Jock]

I think it was really tremendous leadership on the part of all three jurisdictions. In the case of the first nations leadership, the first key element was the unity of purpose. The organizations in B.C. came together and all agreed upon a certain approach. That unity was really vital to further the pursuit. I would say that the federal government was brought into the picture after Premier Campbell made a sincere and really big push to reduce the gap in health status. Then it just became a tripartite partnership.

Really, various other parties have led at different times and made their contributions, but I would say that it was done incrementally, through successive agreements that were developed carefully throughout the process.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Is there a particular time in history when you would identify that this began? I'm trying to get the time frame.