Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 26th, 2020

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I'm sorry to interrupt, Chief. We keep running into timing problems.

I apologize for that, but we'll move to our next five-minute round with Mr. Powlowski.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you very much.

I think you can all agree that your communities have so far done fairly well with the first wave. In fact, a lot of parts of Canada have done pretty well. The epicentres seem to be Montreal and Toronto right now, the big centres. As Dr. Vollant has said, there's very likely to be a second wave and a third wave. Where are these waves coming from? It's the residual disease that continues to exist in places like Montreal and Toronto, and your communities stand to be hit really hard should they be affected in subsequent waves because of the inability to control this in places like Montreal and Toronto.

I'd like to ask specifically, Dr. Vollant or Chief Mckenzie, if you think they could be doing a better job in places like Montreal in controlling the pandemic. Specifically, I'm also on the health committee. Mr. Thériault from the Bloc asked at that committee meeting whether Montreal should be considering a mandatory use of masks and more aggressive measures to control the disease in those places so it doesn't come back, eventually, to hit you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Dr. Vollant, please go ahead.

[Dr. Stanley Vollant]

Hello, Mr. Powlowski.

I fully agree with you that indigenous communities have done well so far, but we're going to get hit by a second wave in just a few weeks or months. That's why I'm advising the Innu Nation to maintain its roadside checkpoints in order to reduce the influx of outsiders, and also recommending a strong testing capability. Anyone coming back from a hot spot, whether it's Montreal, Quebec City or anywhere else, needs to be tested and quarantined for 24 to 48 hours, until their test results come back. Testing is crucial, and it needs to be in place from coast to coast.

Furthermore, we need sufficient supplies of personal protective equipment. Health Canada has fallen short and hasn't provided enough PPE. Of course, when the crisis first started, the hospitals didn't have enough PPE. I was practically operating without a mask for a few days in March. Now Canada is capable of making PPE. First nations need to be provided with PPE and need to start testing again.

Another issue that's very important to me is the health and education of young people. Schools will be closed until June, but we need to find a way to reopen schools or improve education using tablets. We need to invest more money and reopen the schools, maybe with different containment protocols for indigenous schools. Trailers were mentioned earlier. They could be provided by the federal government.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Chief Mckenzie, do you have anything to add as to the ability of places like Montreal to manage the transmission of the disease, and do you think they're doing enough, given the underlying threat to your communities if they aren't doing enough?

[Chief Mike Mckenzie]

I have nothing to add, but I think we should maybe start getting ready for a second wave of COVID-19, around either Quebec City or Montreal. They should do what the first nations have done here in Quebec. We took the initiative to close our borders. We established rules for the first nations. Anyone who left the community had to self-isolate for 14 days when they got back.

Across the country, maybe they should act faster by closing borders, in case there's a second wave. I think that's important. It's also important to test quickly, as Dr. Vollant was saying. With the lockdown lifting, we're reopening Highway 138, so some people will be leaving indigenous communities. When they get back, they'll have to be tested quickly. We have some testing centres in our communities. People coming back in should be required to be tested quickly before they can rejoin the community, rather than spending 14 days isolating in the community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

We're out of time, Mr. Powlowski. Thank you.

We have two-and-a-half-minute rounds now, and we'll start with the Bloc representative, Ms. Bérubé.

Ms. Bérubé, you have the floor.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for joining us. I know the Innu nation has mobilized to fight the COVID-19 pandemic. I'd like to thank the Innu nation and congratulate its members on their initiative and exemplary management.

I'm the member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, and I'm very aware of what's going on within indigenous communities. The community of Lac-Simon closed its borders to avoid the pandemic, and it's still closed.

Chief Mckenzie, you talked about barriers. In your community, are there other barriers that prevented people from following guidelines issued by public health authorities?

[Chief Mike Mckenzie]

Yes, it has to do with information about people with COVID-19. I won't name names because I know we have to respect confidentiality. It took a long time to get information about people who contracted COVID-19. That's an important thing we need to do better if there's a second wave.

As I said earlier, maybe first nations need public health units. That tends to be the missing piece. Our nurses have frequently been in contact with public health representatives and doctors on the North Shore. What we want is public health officials with us in our Innu nation strategic unit and other first nations units.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Therrien Pinette.

Do you think the public health authorities' plan for reopening is too hasty for your communities?

[Jean-Claude Pinette]

Yes, I do. We know that safe reopening means people need to master proper hygiene habits. We still need to raise awareness on that front.

The other thing Dr. Vollant mentioned is that the whole community is highly vulnerable, and the reopening process has to take that vulnerability into account. The system in Canada and in Quebec seems to be heavily based on economic principles. We need to strike a balance between the health of groups and individuals and the potential economic benefits of reopening. We really have to think about striking a balance between those two aspects of Canadian society.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much. Thanks, Madame Bérubé.

Ms. Gazan, you have two and a half minutes. Go ahead.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Meawasige. You spoke a little bit about blockades in Manitoba with Manitoba Hydro. We know that indigenous communities across Canada have felt the need to use blockades to protect their communities as a result of many things you've already mentioned, such as issues around overcrowded housing and access to clean drinking water. They have also communicated very clearly, I know in Manitoba, that sometimes their voice is not respected at decision-making tables.

Can you talk a little bit about why it's important for indigenous nations to have autonomy over these kinds of decisions, and what we can learn from the Manitoba situation?

[Amanda Meawasige]

First nations in Canada, in general, are the group of people who have experienced the devastating impacts of disease and pandemics like no other group. Therefore, establishing these blockades is an attempt to keep out disease and keep out the opportunity for disease to spread.

Particularly when you talk about reconciliation, it's important to respect the self-determination of communities to respond to pandemics or any kind of emerging issue where possible. As mentioned, the hydro situation probably could have been resolved in a much better way with appropriate assurances and communication. It's all about communication and the inclusion of first nations in these discussions.

One of the issues that came up with roadblocks that needs to be remedied, however, is who is responsible for providing the costs for this. If we have a conversation about costs in the jurisdictional football game, if you will—people's getting punting back and forth between ISC and FNIHB—that's another issue that needs to be addressed with respect to the blockades and roadblocks.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

How do you feel that the government could better address it going forward? You mentioned jurisdictional issues. How do you feel the government could better address this so that we don't have this situation occur again?

[Amanda Meawasige]

Right now, ISC is responsible for infrastructure costs, like security costs. Then FNIHB is responsible for health costs. Communities are expected to write two separate proposals and submit two separate plans, when really it should be the governments that work out these plans among themselves and determine who pays for what.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

We're going back now to five-minute rounds. Our next speaker will be Gary Vidal.

Gary, please go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also want to congratulate the groups here today for their information and for the leadership they represent.

Ms. Meawasige, you talked early on in your presentation about the proactive leadership of the first nations that you work with in Manitoba. There was a newspaper article this morning that talked about the importance of observing strict quarantines and preventing any traffic between the villages of the north and the south, about travel restrictions and about how that has been a success in Nunavik.

This was in this particular article, but I'm curious about the Manitoba context. When you talk about zero cases as well, how do you balance that challenge between restricting non-essential travel and the need for people to access essential services outside their communities? We realize that remote and northern communities don't have access to so many things. What did you find out in your experience in northern Manitoba about that kind of balancing act of trying to restrict travel while still having access to the necessary services?

[Amanda Meawasige]

Again, it goes back to communication and common sense, really.

A prime example is ensuring that when essential service providers come in, they're screened, and they fly in separately on their own chartered flight so that there's no risk of contamination through commercial airlines. It's assurances such as these that allow us to safely receive essential service providers.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I have a quick follow-up. What was the response within your own communities to the restrictions on people's ability to leave? Did you find them very frustrated, or were they accepting the restrictions and acknowledging the need for them in order to protect them from the virus?

[Amanda Meawasige]

There was a lot of frustration, particularly around the compliance of young people, but I think that's across the board for the general population. However, as I mentioned, our communities have a lot of unfortunate historical experience with pandemics and disease. We also don't have primary health care available at the community level, and community members are aware of that. Therefore, they're aware of the need to keep our protections high.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you for that.

Dr. Vollant or Chief Mckenzie, I'll give you this question and either one of you can answer.

Could you identify the challenges that first nations communities in your region face in setting up testing services? What kinds of supports have been available? What have the challenges been in setting up appropriate testing in your northern remote communities?

[Dr. Stanley Vollant]

This is a jurisdiction issue and has to do with the provincial government's ability to supply labs so they can detect COVID-19 cases. Getting swabs to do the tests was a huge problem because there's so much demand in Quebec. The pandemic hit the province hard, and everything was concentrated in Montreal, which meant fewer swabs were available in the regions.

One of the federal government's most important roles, and certainly one of Health Canada's, is to provide swabs to first nations that need them. On the North Shore, labs are really operating at full capacity, but it's still hard to get swabs for our communities. The more swabs we have to test our people, the more we reduce the risk of infection in our communities. The problem has to do with federal and provincial jurisdiction over testing people.