Evidence of meeting #3 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was subsidy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
That is a good question. Maybe I'll turn this one over to Mr. Walsh in a moment.
Can I ask for additional clarification on the question?
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
There was a news story about a year ago about how first nations people who were on Amazon Prime were able to get their groceries more cheaply and more quickly than by using the nutrition north program. How does nutrition north accommodate that?
February 27th, 2020 / 11:40 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
The Amazon system does deliver to Iqaluit. Currently that's the only place on our list that can access those items.
We have put in place things like having access to individuals to order food from the south and to the subsidy using their own credit cards and things like that. Those things are available to individuals.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
On their own credit cards....so there is a subsidy directed to individuals. I understood it was more the retailers that—
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
The subsidy is definitely aimed at retailers and suppliers, but individuals can order directly from southern stores that are participants in the program, hence the reason they can do this via Amazon.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
Have you reached out to companies like Amazon or Shopify to see how they could participate in getting other communities online?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
There have been discussions with Amazon in the past.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
That's very good.
I'll hand the rest of my time to my colleague Mr. Zimmer.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
Thank you for coming today.
One thing that both Mr. Viersen and I share is we live in northern communities. I live in a northern B.C. community; it's not as far north as the territories, for sure, but access is very limited in our communities. Things cost a lot more where we live, but again the problem is even more profound up north.
I have a friend who has started a business in Dawson Creek that has localized growing of food in a container-type unit where you can grow fresh food on a smaller scale and also provide it to the local residents. His name is Doug Young. Have similar types of ideas been pursued in the north? We would assume they would have been, but I want some more specifics.
We talk about the Inuit and indigenous peoples who have lived in the north for thousands of years, and they've managed to sustain themselves in the past. Is there some way we can talk about sourcing food in the north for northerners rather than having to make this long trek via airplane or whatever the method is to get up there? Has that question been asked before and how has it been addressed, past experiences included?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Indeed this also came up during the engagement that was held from 2016 onwards. The idea of having innovative solutions in the north is definitely present, and in budget 2019 funding was provided to the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency of $15 million over five years for projects in the north such as what you're mentioning, greenhouses, etc. Colleagues at CanNor are rolling that out. It definitely has been heard.
On other approaches to solutions for the north, I mentioned the harvesters support grant program. That's $40 million over five years, starting this fiscal year, and that's to give access to northerners to country and traditional food by hunting, gathering and harvesting. That is also something new that's occurring this year.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
From what you're saying, it seems like there are funds that are going towards this.
I've been a member of Parliament for almost nine years. We appreciate the money going out, but we also want to measure its effectiveness. You just referred to technology in the north. Has that just started or have there been past attempts to make this kind of localized food sourcing? Has it been happening? How successful has it been? Are we funding something that's been successful that we want to keep going or are we just really starting off on our first step here?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
What I can speak to is the program the department has, which is the nutrition north program. As I mentioned, this is a complex issue that is highly partnered and requires the participation of different partners. Nutrition north is designed to be part of the solution. It is a tool in the tool kit, but it is not the be-all and end-all. It's a grant that gets to people via a specific mechanism. What you're talking about are interesting ideas, and we've heard them from northerners, but they are being rolled out through a different government agency, which is CanNor.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
I'd like to ask the indulgence of our officials here today. I have a procedural motion I want to bring forward in accordance with the motion introduced by the Bloc and passed this morning that this meeting adjourn at 12:45 p.m. and the subcommittee meeting be set immediately after, to go from 12:45 p.m. to 1 p.m., to discuss the witnesses for the study that was passed today.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
I'd like to yield the rest of the time to Ms. Zann.
Liberal
Lenore Zann Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Thank you.
As we've heard, gentlemen, food and security and poor nutrition do disproportionately affect northern and indigenous individuals, households and communities. The main tool of government so far with respect to nutrition and food security in the north is this nutrition north Canada program.
As my Conservative colleague, Mr. Vidal, mentioned, there are interesting programs that people are creating that would help nutrition in the north.
I was pleased to be part of cutting the ribbon back in 2011 in Bible Hill, Nova Scotia at a place called Perennia. My government at the time—I was in the Nova Scotia legislature—built the building, established it and invested in new techniques for helping with food insecurity across the country.
One of the companies that was started there was called TruLeaf, founded by Gregg Curwin, who is still located in Nova Scotia. What he created sounded so exciting, we thought, for the north. It's a system that offers an opportunity to grow a sustainable year-round supply of leafy plants to replace or enhance current sources. They're multi-level farms that can be built anywhere, and they offer the key advantage of growing closer to the market, which maximizes freshness while reducing transportation costs and spoilage. The goal is to enhance the local food supply with a year-round supply of agriculture and reduce reliance on imported produce.
They were basically great big huge containment vehicles that had multi-layered trays of greens growing. They can be rolled out for as much produce as you need. At the time we thought this would be very handy somewhere in the north or even in sub-Saharan deserts around the world.
Has anything like that come to your attention? Is this kind of project something that is actually happening in the north right now?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
That is an interesting project.
We're trying to look at this with a whole-of-government approach to dealing with these issues. That's important. As I mentioned, the program we're managing has a specific mandate. Beyond that, when we bring other federal departments and agencies to the table with our Inuit partners through the Inuit food security working group, these kinds of issues can be discussed. Then the appropriate department can take that back and see what fits within their programming, or see what ideas we have to help move those forward.
It is happening, but not within our department specifically.
Liberal
Lenore Zann Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Are you saying these kinds of projects are happening at this moment? Can the northern peoples get fresh food like this? Can they get fresh vegetables that are grown on the spot at this time?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Yes, and my colleague will elaborate.
Wayne Walsh Director General, Northern Strategic Policy Branch, Northern Affairs, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
What's been happening in the north has been isolated and from the ground up, and there are different realities for different communities. We've heard about the example in Dawson City. We've had examples of community gardens in Inuvik. We've had examples of the containers that you speak of in Churchill, Manitoba. We also are aware of some other pilot projects. Memorial University has a similar approach, but it's more for individual families, and they get boxes. There is a mix of different innovations out there.
I think what's going to be important in terms of the next steps is to look at these as pilots and, by using the newly identified funds in CanNor, be able to perhaps build something a bit more sustainable and more long term.
That being said—and this is the other part of the challenge of the north—we need to look at some of the other factors. Growing food in containers has been highly successful in southern climates, in southern Canada. It's a bit more challenging in the north for a host of reasons, one of which is diesel. Hydroelectricity in the north is produced by diesel, so it can become very expensive to run a container when you're paying $4.25 per litre for diesel.
When we look at pilot projects, we need to look at the whole gamut. We need to look at other things as well, for example how to take advantage of renewables.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bob Bratina
We need to stop there. We're way over.
Ms. Bérubé, you have six minutes.
Bloc
Sylvie Bérubé Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Food insecurity is a problem that disproportionately affects families and indigenous communities in the North. Your program is the primary tool for addressing nutrition and food insecurity in the North.
What are the factors contributing to food insecurity in Canada's North?