Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 1st, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Welcome back. We'll get started.

Welcome to our witnesses.

From the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, we have Daniel Watson, the deputy minister; Jeff Moore, the senior assistant deputy minister, policy and strategic directions sector; Serge Beaudoin, assistant deputy minister, northern affairs; and Ross Pattee, assistant deputy minister, implementation sector.

From the Department of Indigenous Services, we have Valerie Gideon, senior assistant deputy minister, first nations and Inuit health branch; Mary-Luisa Kapelus, assistant deputy minister, education, social development programs and partnership sector; and Dr. Tom Wong, chief medical officer and director general, office of population and public health.

We'll now proceed with our usual round of questions from members.

Are we okay to go ahead with questions, Madam Clerk, or are we going to have briefs from the department?

[The Clerk]

We do not have any briefs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Okay. We'll go right ahead.

[The Clerk]

However, Mr. Schmale and Mr. Viersen have raised their hands.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Mr. Schmale, I saw you first. What's your intervention, please?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Chair, I wanted to let you and the members of the committee know that at four o'clock the Conservative members do have to excuse themselves for another meeting. I'm glad there are no briefs so that we can go to right to questions. I just wanted to let you know

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Is yours the same, Mr. Viersen?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes. I was just going to say the meeting has to end at two o'clock or four o'clock, depending on where you are, because we have another meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

The six-minute question round starts with you, Mr. Schmale. Go ahead, please.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you.

I was going to ask this of the minister, but since we ran out of time, I'll ask the people within the department.

We've been hearing some disturbing news coming out of the Wet'suwet'en territory, with some very concerning statements from the Wet'suwet'en elected chiefs. This news was released last night, raising alarms about the MOU reached between hereditary chiefs, the province and the federal government.

I think everyone understood that after the agreement was drafted, the Wet'suwet'en people would have the opportunity for full and informed engagement on the document. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened, and due to COVID-19, the Wet'suwet'en elected chiefs have asked that this be put on hold until the people of the Wet'suwet'en can be safely included in this important dialogue.

Again, I will put this to the department. Since we're here to talk about COVID-19 and the government's response to it, is there anyone in the department who can at least relieve the fears of the Wet'suwet'en people and confirm that the department, the government, will not move forward on this until the Wet'suwet'en people and elected leaders have a chance to ratify and safely discuss the impact this document has on their lives and their community? Hopefully, someone might be able to provide a comment.

[Daniel Watson]

Thank you very much for the question. This marks the 33rd anniversary this coming week of the launching of Delgamuukw trial. That obviously was a very important one for the Wet'suwet'en people.

One of the things that has never been concluded between Canada, British Columbia and the Wet'suwet'en is how to ensure that the proper conversations happen within that nation. One thing that will absolutely happen as a part of this process is that we will conclude how best to have the Wet'suwet'en nation have its wishes and will expressed fully and completely in relation to the implementation of any of its rights.

The process of engaging others is one that we have been involved with in many other negotiations across the country. It will be very similar. The standards that have been set by the courts and the expectations for everybody around the durability of those agreements rely exactly on what you're pointing out. I can assure you that will happen over time and that the implementation and conversations about any substantive issues will very much require the full consent of the nation.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Mr. Watson, I just want to confirm this. The last time we met, the minister had travelled to British Columbia and had met with some of the hereditary chiefs, although not all, but met with none of the elected members. Have the department or any of the minister's staff that you're aware of reached out to the elected officials to talk about this agreement?

[Daniel Watson]

Yes. In fact, shortly after that meeting, we did have a meeting with one of the chiefs, and the minister is on the record as being willing to travel to the area and to meet with elected chiefs as well. Obviously, she's willing and happy to talk to any chief in the country, very much so.

We will again, during the upcoming negotiations that flow from this, ensure that one of the topics is precisely that question of how to ensure that the full nation is engaged and involved.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Okay. I've allowed that discussion for obvious reasons, but could we return to the study of the COVID approach, as mandated for our meeting? Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Chair, I think this is where it's relevant. According to the news reports that have come out and according to the chiefs who have released the statement, the fear is that the government is moving forward on this during a crisis, the COVID-19 crisis. I just need to assure these elected chiefs that there is a proper process in place. That's where the link is.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Just to reiterate, I think the purpose of the meeting today and the purpose of these meetings is to speak in relation to COVID-19 directly. While the questions that Mr. Schmale is putting forward are important, I think that for the purpose of this meeting, they are not relevant. I would invite any conversations on those questions to be deferred to a later time when we discuss matters including the Wet'suwet'en deal ratification that was done yesterday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Could you proceed under that direction?

You have less than two minutes. Go ahead.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Sure.

To the department, recently there was a list of organizations to meet with the minister regarding COVID-19 planning and consultations, organizations that were not actively consulted early in the process.

Can we confirm that the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples was consulted?

[Daniel Watson]

Mr. Chair, we've had conversations with the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples. I believe I have a meeting scheduled with them shortly on this front. There have been conversations, yes. I'm always careful when I use the term “consultations”, because the indigenous groups themselves often want to be sure that we're not meeting in the sense of giving implied consent for others, but certainly conversations have gone on.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

How about the Native Women's Association?

[Daniel Watson]

We've had a number of ongoing conversations with the Native Women's Association on a number of topics. I can't promise at this point in time that the specific issue of COVID-19 was the original subject of the agendas of those conversations. We've talked about many issues on an ongoing basis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

That's our time on that first six-minute intervention.

Now we go to Mr. Battiste.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I just want to thank the staff and the ministers for their work over the last few weeks. I have heard from chiefs across Canada, and the majority have been satisfied with how our government has been proactive in keeping first nations communities safe during this pandemic and ensuring that the programs are also including them.

One of my questions—and perhaps, Dr. Gideon, you can talk about it—is on mental health. Mental health issues among indigenous people on reserve are overwhelming during normal periods. During COVID-19 there is a significant increase in despair, anxiety and depression on reserve.

To illustrate, I'd like to bring up two issues. The first is from my discussion with the Native Women's Association president, Lorraine Whitman, who talked about the vulnerability of women who are in toxic relationships, who feel trapped inside self-isolation, whereas otherwise they would be able to go out and get support. What are we doing to support indigenous women during this difficult time?

The other one is a little bit closer to home, and I spoke to the ministers about this. I was very saddened that in New Brunswick a young man named Brady Francis was tragically killed in a hit-and-run accident years ago, and unfortunately the man who stood trial was acquitted. Now, I don't want to talk about the case—this isn't the time for that—but one thing I really have to share is the kind of outcry from first nations youth across Canada at this time.

I have to read what's being tweeted and what is on Facebook, on social media: “I am fully and completely aware that I can be killed and there will be no consequence and repercussions because I'm first nations in Canada.”

Let that sink in a bit. This is a message being shared and received by first nations youth in our country during these already difficult times. This is not an isolated incident. It's been brought up many other times. Especially now during this COVID era, what are we able to do to help with those with mental health issues?

We've seen many inquiries and commissions that spoke to this issue.

How can we involve and inspire first nations youth so that instead of having despair, they have a sense of hope that they can be the change that we need to see by being judges, lawyers, and police officers? What steps can we take to give additional support on mental health for the youth during this difficult time and to let people know that our government is listening so that this despair gives way to hope, reconciliation and justice?

Wela'lioq. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Could everyone please be aware of their mikes? Apparently translation is still getting a bit of muffled sound.

Mr. Watson, please go ahead with your response.

[Daniel Watson]

I think my colleague, Deputy Minister Tremblay, will have more to add.

I will start, but maybe with not as direct a response as my colleague, given the nature of the mandate of my department.

One of the important things here is that we've gone out of our way in this conversation to deal with indigenous governments as governments. In the past we would simply have spoken to provinces and territories, and maybe local health authorities. We've gone out of our way to make sure that part of the conversation has been with the modern treaty governments and with other indigenous representative organizations as well. That's in a world where, obviously, we're focusing very tightly on whom we're able to talk to simply because of time and the nature of the emergency.

Maybe that isn't a direct or specific answer to your question, but I think it's important for indigenous youth to see how the rest of Canada's governments are looking at how their indigenous governments are treated and to see that this is at least one part of the solution. Obviously, we're having ongoing consultations to hear what people are identifying as important.

With that, perhaps I will leave Deputy Tremblay to list some of the more specific programmatic aspects.