Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 8th, 2020

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like to ask Mr. Chartrand a question. We know that indigenous people have difficulty complying with quarantine and self-isolation measures because of overcrowding and poor housing conditions.

Could you describe the situation in your respective communities?

[David Chartrand]

I have to apologize to my cousins in Quebec. I'm not connected to the translation. Can somebody repeat in English what the question was, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Let me get back to that question. We'll forward it to you on a text or something.

We'll move along to our next round of questioning.

[David Chartrand]

I do apologize to Sylvie.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Okay.

Go ahead, please.

[Mumilaaq Qaqqaq, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

On a point of order, Chair, I think that might be one of the issues with some of our sound. Some speakers are echoing for me. We had a bit of a burst of sound. I think maybe not everybody is on the channel that they're speaking in. I wonder if that might be the issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you for that, Ms. Qaqqaq. Our technicians can reflect on that for a moment.

Madam Bérubé, we'll get the information to Mr. Chartrand so that perhaps he can answer later.

We'll move on. We'll keep our cycle of questions going and see how we can clean that up. Right now we have a round of five minutes each. The speaker order will be Mr. Schmale, Ms. Zann, Mr. Zimmer and Ms. Damoff.

For five minutes now we have Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair. I appreciate the opportunity.

Thanks to all of our witnesses for sharing their wisdom with us today. I appreciate their time. I know everyone is busy.

Chief Bellegarde, during your opening statements you talked about some concerns you have about the lack of consultation during the COVID-19 process. Were you given any explanation or an idea of why you and your communities were not included in the decision-making process?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

We never had any explanation why, but we're going to keep advocating for the need to be involved formally at a lot of those decision-making tables, whether they're at the federal government level or at the provincial and territorial level. I'm constantly hearing from chiefs that they feel left out, that they're put to the side, that they're forgotten. Governments are making decisions that affect our people and have a huge impact, but we're not at the decision-making tables, and that's not right.

We constantly make the point that people have to understand there's another jurisdiction of governance in this country. It's not just the federal government and provincial government. It's not just the British North America Act, 1867, that outlines federal government responsibilities and/or provincial government responsibilities. First nations governments are the original governments of this land, and that jurisdiction is being put to the side, being forgotten. That's the sad part.

If you involve our people, you're going to get better decisions, better outcomes. That's what we keep advocating for.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Even during a pandemic there's no reason for that. Why you should be engaging in that consultation should actually be highlighted.

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Well, no question. We're going to keep advocating for that.

We have good access to the ministers, but I keep urging my regional chiefs and my AFN executive as well that they should have a good rapport with the premiers. Through EPF financing in the 1960s, the federal government offloaded to the provincial governments treaty responsibilities. It offloaded education, health care and social services to the provinces. Now the federal government transfers billions of dollars to provincial governments.

Again, how are the first nations' needs and rights being met and honoured and implemented? There's a need for full involvement, full inclusion, not only with COVID-19 but also going forward.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I guess that goes with the situation that our friends in the Wet'suwet'en Nation are dealing with. The elected chiefs said that they were not consulted on the agreement between the federal government....

We should have that openness, that transparency, I would think, whether it be with the Wet'suwet'en agreement, whether it be decisions made with health care, whether it be with funding. I'm just confused as to why the elected chiefs were left out of this decision—and you might not have all the answers.

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

That is another good question, but again, I have to be very careful not to get dragged into something. That is very good. But again—

[An hon. member]

Point of order.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I have a point of order.

Go ahead, please.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about COVID and I don't want to put the national chief in a position where he has to comment about agreements when this discussion is about COVID. I'd appreciate it if we would stick to that and not put the national chief in a situation where he's asked to answer something he hasn't prepared to answer on this call.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Ms. Gazan, were you going to comment?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes, again, we had a point of order at the last meeting around COVID. We agreed as a committee to keep our discussions related to the COVID pandemic, given that it's a life-and-death situation. I think we decided to respect that. Once again, I'm asking, Mr. Chair, that we respect that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I would also challenge that even during the pandemic, the duty to consult is still there. I would argue it is relevant given that the government has a responsibility for transparency and consultation now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I'm going to ask you to restrict your questions and not put Chief Bellegarde in a position that he doesn't want to be in.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Honestly, it was not my intention to put him in a situation like that.

Chief Bellegarde, I'll do this. During your opening remarks, unless I heard wrong, did you say that policing is not an essential service on first nations communities?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Yes, policing is not an essential service yet, but we're lobbying and advocating and that's something that everybody on the call should be pushing for, that first nations policing should be an essential service.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Why is that?