Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Jan. 26th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I call this meeting to order. I see we have a quorum.

The first meeting of 2021 of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs is now under way. Of course we start with the acknowledgement that we're meeting on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin people, if we're in Ottawa. In my location it is the territories of the Haudenosaunee, Anishinabe and Chonnonton first nations.

Good morning, everyone.

Once again, to ensure that the meeting is properly conducted and moves smoothly for our guests—and we have one guest ready to present—we have to make sure that the translators can hear to properly translate. That means you select the language you wish to speak on the little interpretation globe at the bottom centre of your screen. Make sure it is on English. If you choose to speak French, of course, you select the French one. When speaking, ensure that your video is turned on, and please speak slowly and clearly. Those who are not speaking should have their microphones on mute.

Our first meeting is under way. Joining us by video conference for the first hour is Deputy Grand Chief Jason Smallboy of the Nishnawbe Aski Nation.

Jason, welcome to our committee meeting. You have up to six minutes for your presentation. Please, go ahead.

[Deputy Grand Chief Jason Smallboy, Nishnawbe Aski Nation]

Thank you, everyone, and good morning.

My name is Jason Smallboy and I am one of the deputy grand chiefs of the Nishnawbe Aski Nation, or NAN. We're a political territorial organization that represents 49 first nations in northern Ontario, the majority of which are accessible only by air or winter road. Thirty-two of our treaties are considered remote.

I want to talk to you about issues surrounding food. The cost of living in our communities is much higher than, say, that in southern Ontario. While our general day-to-day costs of things such as utilities, food, etc., are higher than those for our southern counterparts, the cost of food is astronomical in comparison. For example, the price of milk or baloney or bread at a convenience store in Ottawa would be considered cheap in our territory. Our people are paying close to two to three times the prices in a convenience store in Ottawa for basic staples and necessities.

A little over a year ago, before the pandemic, I attended a climate change conference in Whitehorse, Yukon. While I was there I went to a grocery store to purchase some fruit and snacks for myself and I noticed that the prices for the groceries were about the same as in southern Ontario. I have to ask, how is it possible to have the same prices in Whitehorse as in Ottawa? If this is possible, then that tells me it's possible for us to make some major changes in the NAN territory on the price of food.

The high cost of food is not the only issue in terms of food security. The food that is available tends to be highly processed and unhealthy. Our members face moderate to severe food insecurity as they are unable to access or acquire foods that are healthy and acceptable. Access to healthy food in our communities is a significant barrier for all.

Purchasing significant healthy food to sustain growing families is impossible for many, primarily because of the cost. Many rely on imported foods, which are extremely expensive and often nutrient-deficient options that further contribute to poor health outcomes. Because of the high unemployment rates in our territory, the majority of our families are forced to purchase and consume these unhealthy foods, which leads to our communities being disproportionately affected by poorer health outcomes.

Despite pleas from our community members and academic studies by external bodies, there has not been any substantial government support. This situation has been exacerbated by the pandemic, limiting food availability and further driving price increases. The most vulnerable in our communities have been greatly impacted, as a healthy diet becomes further out of reach for their families.

A significant and sustainable change is needed. We must re-envision food systems and food governance within our nation, because what has been made available through government funding and initiatives to address food security in the north simply isn't working. Simply providing subsidies on food will not address this issue. We support a system change, placing emphasis on the traditional culture of food within communities and the significant role it plays in not only physical health outcomes but also mental health outcomes.

We understand that land-based foods play a critical role in the diets of many, but these practices are becoming a luxury for many families who do not have the means to go out on the land or for those for whom the knowledge of country foods has been lost. Our communities are eager to make change for themselves, but they need financial support so that they can acquire equipment such as rototillers needed to create gardens, infrastructure such as storage facilities and community-owned stores.

There is a growing concern about the safety of our traditional foods as environmental factors play a larger role than ever. Many have noted changes in the migratory patterns of animals, and others have become aware of areas once thought to be safe that are now too polluted to safely harvest from.

Now, more than ever, there is a great awareness of how first nations in the north experience great inequality in providing healthy and culturally acceptable foods for their families. The pandemic has made the gaps in the current system glaring holes, leaving many vulnerable and significantly impacted. Experiencing constant fear of food insecurity is traumatic, demoralizing and unnecessary. We, as a nation, seek to move forward and find solutions to create resilient and sustainable food systems for our people.

In closing, I want to let everybody know that we have been working with nutrition north Canada, and together we have been looking at possible solutions that will address many of the issues. But we need your political will and support to implement these solutions that will result in real change. Also, financial resources are needed to put the changes into action. By making these resources available, our people will be impacted directly and our communities can begin to move to healthier states so that we can bring our people to the same state the rest of the country enjoys.

That is my opening. I'm here and available to answer any questions that any of you may have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you so much, Deputy Grand Chief. It's an excellent beginning to our meeting today.

We'll go to our round of questioners. First up is a six-minute round. I have on my list Mr. Melillo, Ms. Jones, Madam Bérubé and Ms. Blaney.

Mr. Melillo, would you please go ahead for six minutes.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the deputy grand chief for joining us today. Those opening remarks already gave us a lot to think about. I trust that as we move through the questions, we'll have much more to work with. Let me say that it's an honour to be able to speak with you today, as I represent the riding of Kenora and many communities that, of course, you also represent with your organization.

One of the things you mentioned was the winter road system, which is obviously very important for many of the remote communities in my riding. We know that with the changing environment and the warmer winter—every day but today has been relatively warm in our region—the seasons are shorter. They're expected to be shorter. They're already causing some significant issues in winter road availability for many of these northern first nations.

I have heard recently from some chiefs in my riding that they're actually going to be appealing to the federal government to, hopefully, get some support to ensure that the winter road system can be maintained and optimized, especially given the shorter season they have. Of course, as you know, if their goods aren't being driven up, if food is not being brought up through the road system, it's being flown in at a much higher cost. I'm wondering if you could speak a little more about the importance of that winter road system and ensuring that it's as viable as possible for those remote communities.

[Deputy Grand Chief Jason Smallboy]

Thanks for the question.

Yes, it's true that the winter road network that we have in our territory is vital to the delivery of goods to the community, especially fuel. In my experience, when I was working for NAN as a staff member about 10 years ago, we had a meeting. I think it was with the ADM for INAC at the time. Members of many of my communities came to our office, and we met with them. They were concerned that they weren't going to be able to fly the fuel in that was needed for a year-round supply of energy to their communities.

During that meeting, they mentioned that just to fly in the fuel cost half a million to a million dollars. They really wanted to avoid those kinds of costs. When a community doesn't get all the fuel that they need, they have to fly it in. Then, when that happens, a lot of the communities have to pay for it out of their own pocket through other programs or whatnot within the community. That puts a financial strain on the planning of where that money should have actually been used.

When that happens, as well, it creates even more strain on the first nation because the communities only have so much money that they're provided with to run these programs and services and so on. When there are added costs due to not getting enough fuel up to the community because of the winter road conditions, then it creates more strain.

I'm just using fuel as an example because of my experience with that situation. The winter roads play such an important role in NAN. I know when the winter roads are set up, even on the James Bay coast, a lot of communities during the winter road season go down south to do a lot of their shopping. They buy in bulk. I know a lot of people take trucks and just fill them up with basic staples, like toilet paper for example.

There's definitely, I would say, a need. Our communities are looking for cheaper products that they use day-to-day, which people living in an urban area get to enjoy every day. It's something that people in urban areas don't really need to think about.

I hope that answers your question.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Absolutely, thank you.

Chair, I hope I have time for one more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have about a half a minute. I'll give you a minute and a half. How's that?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

That's more than generous. Thank you. I will ask quickly.

You also mentioned the fact that there are obviously a lot of unhealthy foods that are being brought to these communities. There's not really a focus from the government on supporting traditional harvesting. I'm just wondering if you could go into a bit more detail on some of the programs or some of the ways that we might be able to help assist with culturally appropriate and traditional foods.

[Deputy Grand Chief Jason Smallboy]

A harvesters support grant has been made available. I think we need to create more programs and services that encourage our people to be more out on the land. The way it is right now, a lot of people can't afford to go out on the land. It's starting to become a luxury even though a lot of our people are craving it and asking for it.

I'll tell you a story about a program the community started in Moose Cree First Nation in Moose Factory called Project George, where a couple of community members got together. One of them was the former deputy chief, whom I've known for quite some time. He takes kids out on the land, mainly youth at risk, and he teaches them a lot about our culture, our ways, our traditions. He told me one time that he hadn't heard from this kid. He went to his house and told him to pack his things, that they were going out to the bush for a couple of days. The kid was hesitant at first. He said he didn't want to go, but that guy was really persistent. He said to come on, we'll just go and have a good time. The kid gave in and went with a group of other kids, and that kid who was hesitant told the former deputy chief of Moose Cree that if he hadn't come and taken him out to the land that day, he would have committed suicide that night.

That's an example that shows how our people are craving to go back out on the land. One way or another, a lot of families just can't afford it. There is a lot that is being lost and is not passed down the way it used to be.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Chief, I'm sorry to interrupt.

[Deputy Grand Chief Jason Smallboy]

That's all right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

We're way over time on that question, but that's fine. The story was very important for us to hear.

Just so you know, the reason we have a time frame around our questioning is that there's a cycle of questions so that everybody gets a chance to ask you their question. I let you go on, but that was a really great story to hear. We had a police officer in Hamilton who took youth at risk into the woods for two or three days of camping with a similar effect.

Ms. Jones, it's your turn now. You have six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Deputy Grand Chief, for joining us today. I really appreciate your taking the time to inform our committee about the challenges around food security in your area. To give you a bit of context, I represent the northern riding of Labrador. I grew up in an isolated, remote community so I understand very well the challenges you're dealing with.

I have a couple of questions. First of all, last year we introduced the harvester support grant through the Government of Canada and obviously being an indigenous person in remote Canada I've seen first-hand how the benefits of that program have helped so many families. I'm wondering if you guys were able to launch that program this year and what your thoughts are around it. Is it contributing to reducing some forms of food insecurity in your community?

My second question would be this: The Government of Canada has a number of programs and grants that are responding to food security across northern regions. I'd like to hear from you what you think we should be doing more of or doing differently that could really help with food security in your community. I know that through COVID money, your first nations would have received funding. I know that some of that funding in my area went to food security and heat security programs. What feedback did you get on that from the people you represent?

[Deputy Grand Chief Jason Smallboy]

I do believe people have been accessing the harvesters support grant, which is good. We definitely need to have more people able to access other kinds of funding as well. I know that when I travelled to my communities and met with the workers who were working at the band office, a lot of the time they talked about trying to raise money to take more youth out onto the land. There definitely still is a need there.

I'll just let people know that about a year ago, we had submitted a proposal to Environment Canada. We wanted to basically pay people from our communities to go out on the land to track things like climate change and the differences they see out on the land. I thought I would just mention that.

The second part of your question was about what we should do. As I said, we've been working with nutrition north on trying to come up with some real solutions and some things we can do. One of the things we're finding out is that a lot of the companies get the subsidy for nutrition north before the products are sent to the communities. I guess what's happening there is that the food may not make it to the community as quickly as possible, and it may go bad while it's sitting somewhere in storage, let's say. That is maybe something we should look at and maybe change. Make the subsidy available in the community rather than to the company before it has even shipped anything.

Another thing is to make sure that these companies that receive the subsidy are more accountable. When you look at the pricing in the north—for instance, when you go to the Northern store—it shows how much you spend and how much of the subsidy is applied. You can barely even notice it. About two years ago when I was in Fort Albany, I went to the store to buy just two six-packs of English muffins. It cost me nearly $12. That was with the subsidy included. That just gives you an example of how expensive it is in the community.

I hope that answered your question.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you very much for the response.

Mr. Chair, do I have enough time to ask another question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You can get the question in but not the answer. You have about 30 seconds.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Okay.

Deputy Grand Chief, I appreciate your feedback. It's not uncommon to what I've heard from others in terms of whether the subsidies are being transferred and how it can be monitored a little differently. I certainly appreciate the feedback from your area as well.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much for your consideration.

Ms. Bérubé, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chief Smallboy, thank you for appearing before this committee and telling us about what you're going through.

I represent the riding of Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou. So I am also on Cree and Anishinabe territory.

I heard everything you said about your communities and what you are experiencing with respect to food safety, high unemployment and pandemic solutions.

You also talked about the systemic change that is needed. Can you tell me more about what you need in terms of that change?

[Deputy Grand Chief Jason Smallboy]

One thing I wanted to mention today is that I would like to do a study in our territory to look at maybe two or three different models that could be implemented, realistic models that we can use, whereby we can get communities taking more ownership of food security in the territory. We would need some financing, obviously, to do these kinds of studies, but really, right now what we've been doing is trying to address the issues as they come up.

It has been really difficult on families during this pandemic as well. We at NAN have been doing all we can and are trying to work with the companies in the territory to make sure they have enough supplies for the communities. It's difficult. Right now, we would have to consult with our people to look at what are realistic solutions that we can do now and into the future to make life better for our people.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

How are your communities involved in the initiative to address food insecurity in your region?

[Deputy Grand Chief Jason Smallboy]

A lot of our communities are basically looking for funding. They may get funding here and there from different pots, from different sources and whatnot, to do these little projects like, say, gardening. A couple of years ago, I was in a community where they had a community garden. A lot of the community members were involved. It was really good to see, but like I said, a lot of these approaches to funding are project based.

You get so much funding to do this small project for maybe a year or two or three, but nothing that is really for the long term. We received funding from FedNor recently to do a project for about a year to help us with other areas on food. That right there is for only about a year or two. We need more longer-term funding so that we can even have staff members, people to look at and work on these issues in the community, because a lot of times you don't have a staff member dedicated to work on food issues.

I know that for a long time at NAN our director of food was basically working on it part time. She had other responsibilities. That's the reality in a lot of our communities. Our resources are very small. You may have one person in a community who works on three or four different issues. It becomes very much a strain on that person. In an ideal world, we would like to have teams working on all kinds of different issues: environment, food, youth and recreation, and things like that. Unfortunately, there's not enough funding, and there are not enough resources to hire these people.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have 30 seconds.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you. I will ask more questions soon.