Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 23rd, 2021

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Hello, witnesses. Thank you very much for this great testimony. It has been very nice hearing about the contributions you're making here and within the communities.

I'll start with the mayor. I may have missed some of it, but right off the top you were talking about some of the barriers to accessing some of these programs. I believe it was nutrition north that you were referring to. You talked about the bureaucracy involved in accessing some of the programs.

One, did I get the program right? And two, can you explain some of the bureaucratic hurdles you were talking about?

[Randy Jones]

This is what I've had come from some of the store owners who sent me their problems with the nutrition north program. Nutrition north is a great program, but there are things that need to be changed.

It's so far and there's so much paperwork to do that not every supplier will keep their licence in order to sell to nutrition north. On the eastern end of the province, we have two municipalities, Bonne-Espérance and Blanc-Sablon. They are connected by road, and they normally buy their produce. It comes across on the ferry from Newfoundland. There is a supplier in Blanc-Sablon, but due to the bureaucracy and so much paperwork that needs to be done, they just don't bother with it. It's too much to do.

I don't know if you understood what I said, but we are a 90% anglophone community, and that needs to be done mostly in French with all the suppliers, and some of the people just don't have the ability to do so. Some of us do speak French, but for the ones who can't, that's a problem. It's not by choice; it's a geographical error if you want to look at it that way, but we never ever knew that the rest of the province was French until we could get out and see the big centres.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

What recommendations would you give the committee to help with this problem? I have a few other questions, but maybe we can start with that.

[Randy Jones]

I think the thing that would be the most helpful is if they could meet with some of those store owners and the people, the leaders. I am also the warden of our RCM, regional county municipality, that regroups all the five mayors together. I think that would be a wonderful tool, and if we were given the time, we could tell you exactly what needs to be done.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay, perfect.

Maybe I'll just ask quickly about Highway 138. Maybe you can tell us a bit about that and how—I'm assuming just by the article I'm reading here—you and others believe that it could significantly help with the food insecurity issue.

[Randy Jones]

That's definite. I've devoted the last 20 years of my life to the 138. That is the only solution. The airfare.... It costs us more to travel from my community to Tête-à-la-Baleine, which is 30 kilometres away, than it does to travel from Montreal to France. I'm not kidding you; that's exactly what it is. From here to Sept-Îles, it's $1,200 one way, $2,400 return. We don't have that kind of money. The people don't have that. The only people you'll see travelling on the planes are people who are sent out for the hospital or for the big companies and who are working.

About Highway 138, the federal minister announced this fall, just before Christmas, $185 million from the federal government and $232 million from the provincial government. They're supposed to start the construction as of this year. That's not to get it all done, but that's in part. If we could get that done and probably get some of the communities linked together where there are bigger airports, then you could look at a bigger airplane to provide the service and bring in the fresh fruit and produce, and that would be picked up at the airport. It's 35 kilometres, or 50 kilometres by truck. It's not very far, but it costs a fortune.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I'm sorry to interrupt, Mayor Jones.

We'll move along quickly to Adam van Koeverden, for five minutes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses who are here today for all of their context, perspective and insights. It's so valuable for this committee and for everybody studying this important issue of food insecurity.

Mayor Jones, I just wanted to let you know that while you were talking, I googled Harrington Harbour. It looks like the type of place I'd love to visit one day. It's beautiful. I know it's a place fraught with challenges, but it's an amazing-looking place. I'd love to visit one day.

My first question is for Mrs. Rochette. Sorry if my French isn't very good.

Mrs. Rochette, my question concerns the interaction between

the land program, the provincial version of the federal program—the harvester grant—

and the harvesters support grant.

Do these programs work well together?

If not, how could we improve this area?

[Marie Rochette]

First, thank you for the question.

I hope that my Internet connection is good enough for you to hear me, since I'm currently in Kuujjuaq.

My organization isn't responsible for this program. The Kativik Regional Government is mainly responsible for the grant programs for hunters and fishers in Nunavik. I can't answer you specifically on this point.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

If it's okay, I will continue in English.

I'm curious how the various harvester programs—and the programs that fund hunters, gatherers, fishers and traditional food suppliers—are interacting with the harvester grant. I understand the harvester grant might be available, but I would like to make sure the federal program is intersecting well with regional and provincial programs and would appreciate any insight you may have.

I was just looking at the public health website of Nunavik. You mentioned how important these programs are for the mental health and vitality of people, enabling them to live on the land. Do you have any recommendations for how this program or these programs could continue to work better or work better together?

[Marie Rochette]

Some grant programs directly support hunters and aim to bring hunting and fishing products back to the communities, where they can be pooled and made available through community freezers. This component is primarily managed by the Kativik Regional Government, as I said earlier.

There's also the return to the land program. This program is managed by the Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services. The goal of the program isn't necessarily for people to go hunting or fishing, but for them to go out on the land, whether it's to fish or hunt or simply to camp out and learn to live in the wilderness.

These two programs can be looked at together. However, the main goal of the return to the land program is to give seniors and youth access to the land. Otherwise, without access to snowmobiles or all-terrain vehicles, it's difficult for them to carry out these activities.

I'd say that the two programs complement each other, but that they don't have quite the same goals. One focuses mainly on supporting food security, while the other is more about providing knowledge and access to the land with a view to improving mental health.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks, Mr. van Koeverden.

We're right up to time, committee.

I'm going to permit Madame Bérubé and Ms. Blaney to ask their questions, and that will take us five minutes over. We have some important in camera business to continue with.

Madame Bérubé, please go ahead. You have two and a half minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Jones, is all the food available throughout the year, regardless of the season? Do the prices of certain foods change depending on the time of year?

[Randy Jones]

As I explained earlier, in the summer, a small basket of strawberries costs $2.50 or $3, but right now it costs $12. The same is true for milk and many foods. Prices vary for most foods, but not for all.

Recently, prices have been increasing everywhere. As a result, seniors are finding it difficult to purchase healthy products. One lady called me this morning and said that what hurts her the most is that seniors can't buy fresh fruits and vegetables.

Ms. Bérubé, this is certainly an issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have 30 seconds.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Jones, you said earlier that only one retailer carries nutrition north program foods. Can you elaborate on this briefly?

[Randy Jones]

The nutrition north program provides limited in-store selection compared to what arrives by boat in the summer. Most of the time, only one store is part of the program. One store is located in Baie-Comeau, in the western part of the province. There's another store in Blanc-Sablon, but not everyone can make purchases there. The store doesn't have the licence needed to stock up on products from the nutrition north program.

I think that there's room for improvement in this area—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

We need to leave it there.

Mayor Jones, I'm very sorry to interrupt. We're over time.

We have to go to Ms. Blaney for her two and a half minutes.

Rachel, please go ahead.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll ask just one question of two witnesses.

In your testimony, Ms. Beardsley and Ms. Rochette, you spoke about the lack of food storage infrastructure and the challenges this brings to the work you do.

Perhaps I could start with you, Ms. Beardsley. Can you talk about what recommendations you would make around this to our committee?

[Kirstin Beardsley]

It has been a critical challenge to find places in communities where we can store, in particular, frozen fresh food. I think it requires a recognition that there is expense. Cold chain is expensive and it requires investments and care.

I have seen the community freezers that Madame Rochette speaks of work in many communities. In larger communities, we need ongoing infrastructure and support year-round, so there are people in place who are able to maintain that. You can't just put in a walk-in cooler and walk away. You have to have people in place to maintain it, so it requires an ongoing investment to ensure the infrastructure is there.

It's been one of the most critical challenges in moving the food throughout the north.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

Is there anything you'd like to add, Madame Rochette?

[Marie Rochette]

I'd add that, in Nunavik, the issue is primarily related to transportation rather than storage space, particularly for communities located in the far north of the region. I'm talking about communities such as Akulivik and Ivujivik, which are really at the edge of the land covered by air transportation. When temperatures are very cold, it's almost a waste of time to bring lettuce to these areas. It's a challenge to preserve this food, mainly during transportation, and to ensure that the quality is good enough when it arrives.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much. I am done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you so much.

Witnesses, your testimony has been outstanding. I regret my interruptions in the need to conform with the time requirements. We are all impressed, and much will be made of what you have told us in our recommendations.

Thank you so much.

This meeting is now suspended for five minutes to allow everyone to come back for the in camera portion.

[Proceedings continue in camera]