Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 9th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much.

Ms. Bérubé, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also want to thank the witnesses for participating in this committee.

I represent the traditional territory of the Cree and Anishinabe people of Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik-Eeyou, in Quebec.

My question is for Mr. Nadon.

Mr. Nadon, how did you change your business plan to meet the needs of the communities?

[Todd Nadon]

Thank you so much for the question.

When it comes to how we were meeting their needs, it was really important for us to look at what types of skill levels we had in the business that could help us manufacture and process stuff right on site. The reason that's important is that Sioux Lookout itself is located fairly remotely. There is a single-lane highway between Thunder Bay and Kenora. There are lots of delays. Sometimes it's hard to get product there.

When it came to how we had to change our business model, we had to look at what it takes to be more consistent when people are ordering. There is a large expense already in shipping stuff up north. It's even harder if only 80% of what they are ordering is showing up.

We were fortunate. When my wife and I bought the business, we had worked for a large multinational company for about 12 years, so we had quite a few skills already in baking and meat cutting and things like that. We needed to change the business in a way that we could incorporate our skills into it.

As I said in my opening remarks, we're not bringing in baked goods five times a week. In some previous testimony, there was quite a bit of talk about English muffins, which come all the way from Vancouver. Having the ability to produce them right onsite was sort of an amazing concept.

It's been a long process. Over the 10 years, we probably spent five years training good bakers and meat cutters. Now we're into processing our own meats. We can make stuff fairly quickly and we can ship it quickly, and we can improve our consistency in how much shows up.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

What issues did you really need to overcome in relation to your strategy?

[Todd Nadon]

One thing we face in Sioux Lookout is that there is quite a labour shortage. In the last job numbers I saw, there were over 200 job postings in Sioux Lookout. When it comes to skilled labour, it is difficult to secure those positions.

The one great thing about nutrition north and how we've changed the business structure, which has helped with that situation, is that we've created career jobs. People are gaining skills. When somebody comes into our business, they become a baker, a meat cutter. Those are great jobs, and when we cut out the middleman, we can pay the extra wages to those people right there.

What we did was to get really focused on retention, and that has been very successful for us. It's something we want to continue to evolve our business into so that we are continuing to create these skilled jobs that pay higher wages, have great benefits and people stay with us for longer periods of time.

Thank you.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

My question is for Mr. Suraci.

Mr. Suraci, you also spoke about processing technology. I want to hear your suggestions for addressing the current shortcomings that are preventing better access to food security. Do you have any suggestions?

[Frank Suraci]

Our proposal is two-pronged. We can take fresh produce and distribute it among the residents of communities, or we can process it and bring technology up there. It's simplified technology because of the distances and because the capacity has to be trained. We can do this over time.

When we had the first nation chiefs come down and look at our demonstration units, these people's imaginations went far beyond what we had thought. They are capable of incorporating technologies to train their people. That's why the training curriculums are so important for these people to do their own processing, their own blast freezing and their own canning. This is not big technology with big factories. This is maybe a 10,000 square foot building with a warehouse.

We're looking at this as an opportunity for them to control their own destinies in supporting their own businesses and creating the food security measures that they're lacking today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks, Mr. Suraci. That's our time.

Ms. Blaney, you have six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses. I appreciate their testimony.

I will start with Mr. Nadon and Ms. Tootoo Fotheringham first.

Some of the testimony that we've heard on nutrition north is similar to yours. There are some very high concerns about it. Some of those concerns are around transparency, which I think you've both spoken to, and around its not reflecting the needs. Folks who are on a low income get the same discounts as everybody else. It continues to perpetuate ongoing food insecurity.

I'm wondering if you could respond to that. What do you think about a nutrition north that puts a little more power in the consumers' hands? What do you think that would look like?

[Todd Nadon]

I'll answer that question first.

I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that this program is only successful when consumers are involved. It's a very important part of how we want to make this program work well for them. When it comes to the ability for consumers to have more say and more feedback into how the program's going to go forward, I don't have a solution for what that looks like, but I think it is an important part of it. As a private business, if we want to be successful in being a part of this, we don't have any other choice but to listen to what our customers need. That's why I've said so much of what we're doing now is being driven by our customers.

I'm sorry. What was the other question?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I think you've answered it just talking about nutrition north.

The other part was around the income part. What we're hearing from multiple folks is that this is not a social program. It's not based on supporting people who have a low income, making sure they have more food security. We've heard a lot about that ongoing food insecurity, the stress and the impacts that it has.

From your perspective, I'm wondering if that resonates.

[Todd Nadon]

It has its drawbacks and it has its good parts, being a grocery store that services a community and also has a dual purpose of shipping things up north. Whatever price we're selling a product for on the shelf within the store is the same price that we're shipping it up north. The system doesn't have the capability of duplicating prices or changing them. At the end of the day, at least it keeps us transparent and accountable to our customers that what we're doing locally in the community is also what we're offering up north.

As far as having a system that can identify disparities and adjust to that is concerned, I don't think I would have a solution. I would have to reflect on something like that.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to go to Mr. Suraci.

Here is my first question. You're talking about your idea, and then you talked about how you went to the ministry first and the ministry encouraged you to talk to indigenous communities. Could you tell us what the consultation process is looking like?

You said five communities are interested. I'm wondering where those are and how soon these will be set up.

[Frank Suraci]

We've talked to the various ministries—Indigenous Affairs and Services, Agriculture and Agri-Food—all trying to figure out who has a play in this. Is it an agricultural play? Is it a first nations play? Whatever....

What we did is we let those people sort it out. We went right to the first nations and had a consultation with the five groups that we had contacted and asked them what their interest would be. They came down to North Bay. We have a demonstration unit. They saw all the vegetables being grown and how easy it is to process them. The process there was they said what they wanted and what their communities are always looking for in fresh produce, basically, cucumbers, lettuce, tomatoes and some herbs. Those are the core staples, let's call them, and they're prepared to undertake these projects as long as they have a place for their community members to work in and it's driven by them.

That's a very interesting concept, because that's exactly what they should be doing. Where we kind of stumble is that now it's in the government's hands and in these various ministries, and they're all trying to determine who should participate financially and who should participate as a lead. There, hence, is the blocking point right now.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm curious about the impacts of climate change. We've heard again and again from testimony that the climate is changing rapidly and that the impacts are felt most up there. I'm wondering how the facility you've built will adjust to climate change.

[Frank Suraci]

These units actually produce revenue from the carbon credits they generate. The five of those units reduce 11,500 tonnes of greenhouse gases—offsets 11,500 tonnes of greenhouse gases. If you sell those credits on the market, based on what the Canadian government specifies, that would generate about $1.8 million in revenue for the communities. It's a revenue generator just for them to be operating on their reserves.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

That brings us to time.

Witnesses, I want to thank all of you for bringing your insights to our committee. It's one of the honours and pleasures of being in this kind of work to meet people from all over the country who are doing amazing things and have real perceptions and passion for moving the country ahead. Thanks to all of you for that.

The evidence and testimony will be captured by our analysts in our report. Once again, thank you to everyone.

Committee, we will meet on Thursday for two hours to discuss Bill C-15, an act respecting the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Mr. van Koeverden, could I have a motion to adjourn?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I so move.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.