Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 22nd, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I call this meeting of the indigenous and northern affairs committee to order.

We will start with the acknowledgement, of course. We meet in Ottawa on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin people. However, as you can see in the grid, we have many nations represented. Here, where I am, are the Anishinabe, Haudenosaunee and Chonnonton first nations.

To ensure an orderly meeting, remember to speak and listen in the official language of your choice by selecting the interpretation within the globe at the bottom centre of the screen. When speaking, please do so slowly and clearly. You should be on mute when you are not speaking.

Joining us today, by video conference, for the first hour are Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations Carolyn Bennett and Minister of Northern Affairs Dan Vandal. They are accompanied by the following senior officials: Daniel Quan-Watson, deputy minister; Paula Isaak, associate deputy minister; Serge Beaudoin, assistant deputy minister; Mary-Luisa Kapelus, senior assistant deputy minister; and Annie Boudreau, chief finances results and delivery officer.

Welcome to everyone. We have a really important meeting and a tight timeline. I'm going to ask the ministers to give opening comments for up to six minutes each before we proceed with questions.

Minister Bennett, would you please go ahead, for six minutes.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Kwe kwe, unnusakkut, tansi, hello, bonjour.

I am speaking to you today from the traditional territory of the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation. I wish to honour the waters they paddled and their moccasins, which walked these lands.

Mr. Chair, it is an honour to appear again before this committee today, to discuss my department's supplementary estimates (C), as well as its 2021-22 main estimates.

I am appearing with my colleague the Minister of Northern Affairs, and supported by our officials, led by Deputy Minister Daniel Quan-Watson.

The COVID-19 pandemic has presented challenges to everyone in Canada, especially people living in first nations, Inuit and Métis communities. The priority of indigenous leadership has been to keep their people safe.

From the very beginning, our government has been there to support first nations, Inuit and Métis communities through the fight against COVID-19, with daily calls with the three ministers. We are so grateful for the truly amazing public servants who are working 24-7. We'll be there as we work towards the recovery and building back better—socially, economically and environmentally.

Reconciliation and self-determination are essential to a strong recovery and represent the core of my mandate. No one wants to go back to normal. We now have the opportunity to bring all Canadians with us as we accelerate the progress to self-determination and support indigenous communities as they implement their own visions for the future.

Our commitment to advancing reconciliation and accelerating self-determination is reflected not only in the estimates being considered today but in everything we do on a day-to-day basis. The 2020-21 supplementary estimates (C) reflect a net increase of $138.6 million for CIRNAC, which brings the total budgetary authorities for 2020-21 to $6.9 billion.

Some of the key priorities that funding from the supplementary estimates (C) will support include the implementation of the Métis government recognition and self-government agreements, the implementation of Canada's collaborative self-government fiscal policy, engagement to support the introduction of Bill C-15 and the coordination and implementation of the national action plan on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, two-spirit and LGBTQQIA+ people.

Notably, the $35.6 million to implement the Métis government recognition and self-government agreements signed with the Métis Nation of Ontario, the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan, and the Métis Nation of Alberta will support their visions of self-determination and their ability to determine their own political, economic, social and cultural development. The $8.2 million for fiscal transfer agreements with self-governing indigenous governments will support ongoing funding to these governments, as well as enforcement activities under the Teslin Tlingit Council Administration of Justice Agreement.

In addition, $5.2 million is assigned to support the engagement process of Bill C-15. The current version of the bill, built on the momentum and support from indigenous groups for the former private member's bill of Romeo Saganash, Bill C-262, is a reflection of our ongoing engagement with indigenous partners. Moving forward on Bill C-15 is the right thing to do, and I look forward to working closely with all of you during your examination of the bill over the next few weeks and on potential further improvements to the bill. We are grateful for your prestudy.

The funding of $2.6 million over three years for missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, two-spirit and LGBTQQIA+ people will help ensure that survivors and family members can continue to meaningfully participate in the development and ongoing implementation of the national action plan. The MMIWG secretariat, led out of CIRNAC, will provide support to the national family and survivors circle to ensure that it is included, supported and connected with all the working groups and at the very centre of the process.

The 2021-22 main estimates for Crown-Indigenous Relations will be approximately $4.7 billion. While this reflects a net decrease of $189 million, or 4%, compared with last year's main estimates, this is mainly due to the anticipated settlement of claims. Also, as you know, main estimates do not reflect the additional funding made available throughout the year through the supplementary estimates and cannot ever be viewed as a complete picture of intended spending.

In closing, I know you all agree that the top priority of this government during this difficult time has been the safety and physical and mental health of all Canadians, including first nations, Inuit and Métis people and especially their elders. I'm proud that even in these extraordinary times, our government has continued to advance reconciliation, right wrongs and accelerate self-determination for indigenous peoples in Canada.

Meegwetch. Qujannamiik. Marci. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you so much, Minister.

Minister Vandal, go ahead for six minutes please.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Minister of Northern Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

Tansi. Boozhoo. Greetings and hello.

I want to begin by acknowledging that I am speaking with you today from my office in Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, Treaty 1 territory, the traditional territory of Anishinaabeg, Cree, Oji-Cree, Dakota and Dene peoples, the homeland of the Métis nation, and a city that many Inuit call home.

I am proud to join you virtually today, alongside Minister Bennett, to speak about the 2020-21 supplementary estimates (C) and the 2021-22 main estimates, and what the Government of Canada is doing to assist first nations, Inuit and Métis in Canada, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The unique needs of indigenous people and northerners present their own challenges in these COVID times. While the pandemic is certainly not over, there is hope down the way.

I thank you for this opportunity to discuss the important work we are doing to confront the COVID-19 situation and to mitigate its impacts in the north, as well as to answer your questions on supplementary estimates (C) and the main estimates.

These estimates reflect our government's commitment to creating greater economic opportunity and supporting a higher quality of life in Canada's north and Arctic. Furthermore, these estimates demonstrate our government's firm intention to continue working to renew our relationship with indigenous peoples, to tackle climate change and its impacts, to promote economic development and economic growth for northern communities, and to create quality jobs for the people of the north and the Arctic.

Growing the economy while protecting the environment and addressing climate change is a priority for our government. Despite the challenges we all faced in 2020, it was still a year of progress and successes.

In November, with the Government of Yukon, we introduced the COVID-19 recovery research program. As I reported to the committee in November, northerners should not have to worry about putting food on their table or ensuring a continued supply of essential items. Our government provided an additional investment of $25 million to nutrition north Canada. We've also introduced the new harvesters support grant, which is increasing northerners' access to country foods by providing funding to support traditional hunting, harvesting and food sharing. We also marked the formation of the task force on post-secondary education in the north.

The supplementary estimates (C) reflects a net increase of $138.6 million for CIRNAC, including $120.9 million in new funding and $17.7 million of net transfers with other government departments. The total budgetary authorities for 2020 will be $6.9 billion.

More specifically, as announced in the 2020 fall economic statement, $64.7 million is allotted to funding for northern supports to territorial governments to support steps taken to respond to the pandemic. This initiative will contribute to ensuring that territorial governments have the capacity and the resources required to enforce preventative measures and to afford medical options to limit the spread of COVID-19, address regional challenges related to the pandemic and take immediate action to protect health and safety.

CIRNAC's 2020-21 main estimates will be approximately $4.7 billion. This reflects a net decrease of $189 million, compared to last year's main estimates, which my colleague Minister Bennett spoke to.

While there was an overall decrease in these main estimates, they also reflect increases in support of key initiatives, such as the northern abandoned mine reclamation program, which is building a better future for Canada's north by addressing federal contaminated sites.

The government's main objective is to provide support to help curb the spread of COVID-19 and ensure that communities are supported throughout the pandemic. We will continue to work with our territorial and indigenous partners to ensure that all remote and northern communities are protected and are in a strong position to recover when we can safely.

I want to take a moment of course to acknowledge the hard work of territorial and indigenous partners, public health officials and frontline workers who have done an incredible job of distributing and administering vaccines across the north.

Last week, eligibility opened up for every northerner in the territories over the age of 18, which is only four months after the first shipments arrived in Canada. I think we can all acknowledge the significance of this milestone, but we know there's still much more work to do.

Again, I want to thank you for this opportunity to speak to you. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Minister, thank you very much.

Thank you, Minister Bennett.

We go to a six-minute round of questioning now. I have on my list Mr. Schmale, Mr. van Koeverden, Madame Bérubé and Ms. Blaney.

Jamie Schmale, please go ahead for six minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and good evening to our witnesses.

I'll start with Minister Bennett, if possible.

Minister, I'd like to talk to you about the McGillis family and the Yekau Lake lawsuit settlement.

Minister, as you know, my predecessor, Cathy McLeod, sent you a letter on December 4 regarding the McGillis family. As you may recall, the McGillis family are certificate holders on the Yekau Lake settlement agreement. That's an agreement that was signed by you to settle the Yekau Lake bombing range matter. It's also an agreement that the McGillis family was not consulted on. Your response was to send the court's verdict.

With respect to your response, Minister, how could the federal Crown in 2015 say to the Federal Court in the Mohawks litigation that the band has no right to claim or collect damages to reserve lands covered by a certificate of possession, and then take the opposite position, inconsistent with the case law before Justice Strickland, in 2020?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thanks so much, Jamie.

I would love to have the opportunity to explain how these things work. It means that the negotiations are undertaken in a confidential and privileged way, without prejudice, based on Canada's negotiation with the chief and council that represent the community.

Canada encouraged at the time the discussions between the Enoch Cree Nation and the certificate of possession holders to resolve their internal issues. As was outlined in the response, like all members of the Enoch Cree Nation, they were privy to all of the information shared with them by the chief and council during the negotiation process. They had the right to participate in the community's ratification process and to cast their vote for or against the agreement.

Obviously, the community voted for the agreement, so the Federal Court decision was attached to the response in order to clarify in detail that the settlement between Canada and the Enoch Cree Nation could not preclude the McGillis family's action from proceeding. They have that right, but in its decision, the court found that preventing the settlement and, therefore, delaying compensation to all the Enoch Cree members, collectively and individually, would not be in the public interest.

As is their right, the plaintiffs have appealed the Federal Court decision. In response, we noted that the Federal Court's decision was clear and left no legal impediment to Canada's ratifying of the settlement agreement. Ratifying the settlement and paying the compensation was the right thing to do.

I know, because it's still before the court, I'm not able to meet with them. I'm not sure if Deputy Quan-Watson has anything additional to add.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Maybe I'll ask the deputy in the second part.

I guess what I'm also asking is given that the McGillis family are an indigenous family and they are certificate holders of the land, obviously, they are a bit upset and concerned. They feel that they were not consulted on this and they also feel that the order in council was rushed through. Can you explain that hurry?

[Daniel Quan-Watson, Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs]

Thank you for the question.

These actions go back to the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. The government has admitted having done wrong in those instances. I think that, 70 or 80 years after the facts occurred, it's difficult to say that we were rushing. I think the first nation argued for a long time that we dragged our feet for too long.

The compensation that was offered under this deal is one.... It's clear that there needs to be parts set aside in case there are other claims against it.

I would note that this is the type of claim that, because of the passage of time, if it hadn't been for the specific claims policy, it probably would have been impossible for individuals to bring it forward. The existence of the policy, the negotiations, meant we were able to recognize and pay compensation where we would not otherwise have been able to do it. We did not penalize the community as a whole because of this appeal, recognizing in particular that if there were an issue between the family and the community, it could be dealt with in the courts and that there would be money available to have that addressed.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you.

I want to switch gears here.

In response to COVID-19, the financial management board drew upon its capacity to understand and analyze financial statements to qualify the $1.9-billion impact that the pandemic is having on own-source revenues of first nations across Canada. Now, after issuing this revenue research report in October, the government committed in the fall economic statement to $332.8 million to support first nations, Inuit and Métis communities in 2021-22 to offset declines in OSR and to help ensure that these communities continue to provide the same level of service that their members demand.

Minister, from what we've been hearing, I understand that the money is not flowing. With time ticking, is there a plan to get this money out this year?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Time is ticking. You have 20 seconds.

Please go ahead.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

There's no question that we've heard from many nations about the problem with own-source revenue through this. That's why, in terms of indigenous businesses and so many other supports that we've put in place, we know we will have to do more, as that really has impacted the kinds of services that nations have been able to deliver.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much, Minister and Jamie.

We will go on to Adam van Koeverden.

You have six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm joining today from the traditional territory of the Haudenosaunee, the Huron-Wendat, the Anishinabe, the Attawandaron and more recently the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation, as well as many others. I'm very grateful to be joining you here and talking about these important issues.

Speaking of important issues, I'm a strong believer that Bill C-15, on the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, is some of the most important work we'll be doing on this committee.

Minister Bennett, I know you'll be coming back next month to discuss Bill C-15 and how important it is with us. The supplementary estimates include additional funding for that bill.

I am hoping you could give us a sense of the engagement that the government has done to develop the bill. It's been a hot topic of discussion among us, particularly with our indigenous partners. Give us a bit of a prelude for Bill C-15, if you could.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thanks for the question.

For all of those who have been fighting to have Canada formally acknowledge the important work of so many Canadians, like Grand Chief Willie Littlechild, at the UN for so long, I think this is an exciting time to have it declared and to supplement the understanding of section 35 rights, and to have that clarity that allows people to go forward.

We know that Romeo Saganash's Bill C-262 went through the full parliamentary process and was passed in the House of Commons. It was stalled in the Senate.

I think the kinds of engagements that Minister Lametti has undertaken have been extraordinary. There were over 70 virtual sessions. There were so many bilateral sessions with national indigenous organizations.

Particularly—Adam, you would love this—with young indigenous law students and the young indigenous leaders, they took what is a static declaration and improved the legislation so that two-spirited people and gender-diverse people, the diversity within indigenous communities here in Canada, are now reflected in both the preamble and in the body of the bill.

We've ended up with a better bill. We will continue to do the work. Then we will have to have three years to develop a serious action plan to make sure that all the laws of Canada are in keeping with that bill.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

We are all very grateful for that work and consultation.

On the theme of consultation, Bill C-15 requires that the designated minister “must, in consultation and cooperation with Indigenous peoples and with other federal ministers, prepare and implement an action plan to achieve the objectives of the Declaration.”

This has come up quite a few times at this committee and I've heard it discussed as well. Is this just a statement, or will action come out of it? I think this committee would really benefit from your sentiments and thoughts on what this government bill would produce in terms of action and on the process, preparation and implementation of that action plan.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Again, we will obviously need to work in close partnership with our first nations, Inuit and Métis partners, particularly on what needs to happen in all the bills across Canada. What are the priorities? What changes need to be there?

It's not quite the same as the same-sex benefits, which is sort of where we find something across all the bills and just replace it. This is going to be significant and about what the priorities are. However, it also means that various regions.... I know that Regional Chief Adamek in the Yukon wants to do a much deeper dive, not only into the bill but into the implementation plan, to see how they would affect her region. We are helping and supporting that kind of work coast to coast to coast.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you. That is super helpful and very insightful.

Let's change the subject a bit, toward the collaborative self-government fiscal policy. Your reflections on this are in your opening statement.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The collaborative fiscal policy is one of the most extraordinary things we've been able to do as a government. We are working with all of the self-governing nations, so they can develop the fiscal model they will need to run their own governments. It has been extraordinary to see that work done in a collaborative way. We came up with the funding model together. Most of them are now receiving more than three times what they would have gotten under the Indian Act.

A tremendous collaboration also happened as we watched these self-governing nations work in collaboration with one another throughout COVID, setting priorities that help one another, and as they moved toward their new proposal around infrastructure, which is exciting.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thanks, Minister Bennett.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks, Mr. van Koeverden.

Ms. Bérubé, you have the floor.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I represent the Cree and Anishinabe territory of Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou.

My question is for Minister Bennett.

We always talk about violence against indigenous women and girls. Unfortunately, this is an ongoing problem. In 2019, the government indicated that it had a national plan for missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and that it would be released by June 2020. However, in May 2020, the government indefinitely delayed the release of the national action plan because of the pandemic.

Please tell me about the progress that has been made on the national action plan since June 2020.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

As always, our hearts go out to the survivors and families touched by the national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, two-spirit and LGBTQQIA people.

In response to the first-ever national inquiry into this tragedy, our government worked with the provinces, territories, partners, indigenous governments, and victims and their families to develop a national action plan and a clear roadmap to ensure the safety of indigenous women, girls, two-spirit and LGBTQQIA people, both in their communities and in our cities as a whole.

We now have sub-working groups, all led by indigenous women. More than 100 women are participating in sub-working groups, including on the urban environment, on two-spirit people, on data, on first nations, on Inuit and on Métis. There is also the National Family and Survivors Circle. All sub-working groups work together and the leaders of each sub-working group report their work to the umbrella group. The Yukon government has already shared its work. It's a good example for all the provinces and territories.

I think it's an effective plan. In addition, it provides for the responsibility over the coming years to continually measure results and adapt the process accordingly.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Can you tell me what impact the delay of releasing the national action plan will have on indigenous women and girls?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I hope it will improve relations. As the case of Joyce Echaquan showed, it will take change in all of our institutions, addressing systemic racism and taking an approach that will allow all Canadians to see the role they can play in reconciliation and ensuring the safety of indigenous women, girls and two-spirit people. It is a shared responsibility.

Last week, I had a good discussion with the Quebec minister responsible for indigenous affairs, Ian Lafrenière. In the wake of the Vienna conference, these are recommendations and calls for justice. Together, they are a good plan for Quebec, but also for Canada as a whole.