Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 3rd, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I call this meeting to order, acknowledging first of all that in Ottawa we meet on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin people.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the motion adopted on June 1, 2021, and following the discovery of the remains of 215 indigenous children buried on the former site of the Kamloops residential school, the committee holds its meeting on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action 72 to 76.

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With us this first hour are the following departmental officials. From the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, we have Daniel Quan-Watson, deputy minister; Martin Reiher, assistant deputy minister; and Kristi Carin, director general. From the Department of Indigenous Services, we have Valerie Gideon, associate deputy minister.

Thank you all for taking the time. We will begin with opening statements followed by our usual rounds of questioning.

Who would like to begin with our official group?

[Daniel Quan-Watson, Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs]

I will, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Please, go ahead.

[Daniel Quan-Watson]

Kwe kwe, ullukkut, tansi, hello, good morning.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to acknowledge that I am speaking to you today from Treaty 6 territory in Edmonton, the traditional territory for many indigenous peoples, in particular the Cree, Saulteaux, Niitsitapi, Blackfoot, Métis and Nakota Sioux.

I'm supported by my senior officials from the department, as well as by my colleague, associate deputy minister of Indigenous Services Canada, Valerie Gideon. We will be available to answer questions on many mental health and other health supports.

I would like to begin by paying tribute to survivors of residential schools, their families and their communities, and by acknowledging the ongoing impact of intergenerational trauma.

Today, our hearts are with the Tk'emlúps te Secwepemc people, survivors, families and indigenous communities across Turtle Island as they grieve the loss of these innocent children.

Tragically, the gravesite in Kamloops isn't an isolated case. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission documented more than 4,100 deaths of residential school students across the country. There are other known cases of unmarked graves across the country, and many more—thousands, even—will be located. This is the grim reality of residential schools.

As we reflect on this loss, we must acknowledge that this isn't a purely historical event. There are parents who are still living and who lost children, maybe even amongst those found in Kamloops.

There are surviving brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews and other family members who will be wondering if their loved ones are among those who have been located. We are resolved to follow the wishes of communities and offer support, as needed, to those affected, and to memorialize those innocent souls.

The recent events in Kamloops remind us about the importance of acknowledging the legacy of residential schools and their tragic impact on first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. It is difficult to imagine the pain suffered by so many indigenous children and their families and communities. It is said that one of the children found at the Kamloops residential school may have been as young as three years old—a life that was stolen and likely buried without a proper ceremony. It's disturbing, and it should never have happened, but it did.

Many students who went to residential school never returned. They were lost to their families. They died at rates far higher than those experienced by the general school-aged population. Their parents were often not informed of their sickness and death. They were buried, away from their families, in long-neglected graves.

Although it is painful, we need to continue to search for answers. Canadians have a responsibility to know the history and legacy of residential schools, and to honour residential school survivors, their families and communities.

Archaeological and historical research was conducted about potential gravesites and cemeteries at former residential school sites across Canada in advance of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission hearings. All available federal-related records were turned over to the TRC. The National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation now houses the reports on the deaths of students. As technology evolves, it is likely that other burial sites will be uncovered.

Identifying burial locations of children who died while attending residential schools is fundamental to providing closure for families. Significant progress is being made with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's 94 calls to action. Approximately 80% of the calls to action under the sole or shared responsibility of the federal government are completed or well under way.

We know that we can do better. Indeed, we must. Collectively, we must chart a new path toward a Canada that honours, respects and is fully inclusive for first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. Renewed relationships are fundamental to the growth and prosperity of our country.

Meegwetch, qujannamiik, marci, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks so much.

Are we going to hear further? Can we move to our questioning now? That's great.

Just before we start, I'd like to point out to our guests that the picture behind me is of a sculpture located in the Battlefield Park national historic site in Stoney Creek, called The Eagles Among Us. It's the work of first nations artist, David General, and is dedicated to healing and reconciliation.

On Monday, a vigil was held at that site for the 215 children, with pairs of shoes filling the sculpture base in memory of the lost children.

Throughout the current pandemic, we were saddened by the reality of people, especially the elderly, passing away with no loved ones near to comfort them. Imagine the fate of these children, in a strange place, being overcome by illness, dependent on strangers to ease their suffering, if indeed any were there, tears in their eyes, all alone, feeling unloved as the darkness of death overcame them.

We are here today, in part, to tell their spirits that they are loved. They are watching us, and we can't let them down.

With that, I am going to welcome Cathy McLeod, who has done so much great work here, back to our committee as the first questioner in the round of questioning.

Cathy.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to start with the words of Kúkpi7 Casimir, Chief Casimir, and what she said to the Prime Minister of Canada and all federal parties:

We acknowledge your gestures, but as a community who is burdened with the legacy of a federally mandated Indian residential school, Canada must face ownership and accountability to Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc, as well as all communities and families.

I am going to go back. In 2015 this government committed to all 94 calls to action. It put dollars aside in 2019, of which very limited amounts have been spent, and both the government and the AFN report cards indicate limited to moderate progress on this particular issue.

I'm going to ask some very specific questions for the community I represent, and I have to hold them up. The leadership and the strength that they have shown have been incredible and we just appreciate so much, again, the leadership that has been shown.

On the calls to action, I'm going to start with number 73, and I am going to ask specifically what has happened in the community. I'll shorten it to TTS, as they often do. What have you done in terms of call to action 73? It reads as follows:

We call upon the federal government to work with churches, Aboriginal communities, and former residential school students to establish and maintain an online registry of residential school cemeteries, including, where possible, plot maps showing the location of deceased residential school children.

Again, specific to the community that I represent, where this horrific discovery of 215 children was made, what have you done on call to action 73 with them?

[Daniel Quan-Watson]

Mr. Chair, thank you for your ongoing work on this, which is particularly close to the community you represent.

On call to action 73, we have taken a number of steps. We have made some investments. Obviously, it's a national approach, dealing with all of the 131 sites that we know of, and certainly the 55 across the country where there are known burial sites, but it will be available specifically for Kamloops.

I'll have my colleague, Martin Reiher, speak to the specific investments that we have made in the online registry, which is—

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I'm talking about for Kamloops, specifically. Have you done anything in terms of their plots?

I know that Chief Casimir indicated that she hadn't seen any support come through on any of these calls to action. Maybe there is some national work going on, but after six years you would think the biggest residential school in the country would have had some direct conversations and direct engagement and some direct work. It's been six years, so, again, specific to this community, have dollars flowed? Have conversations been had? Have meetings been had?

Have you listened to their direction? I understand that it was a provincial grant that got them to where they were, so they had to struggle to get a provincial grant. It wasn't federal dollars.

[Daniel Quan-Watson]

I'm pleased to be able to report that it was in fact a federal grant. It came from Canadian Heritage. It was part of the celebration and commemoration fund. It was approximately $40,000. The grant is available online. You can find the details of it there. It was in fact the federal government, and it's the result of a direct engagement between a federal department and the band on that very specific site. It was, in fact, federal monies.

That program was established as part of the overall response of the government to the TRC recommendations, and it was done specifically to ensure that this particular site in Kamloops, at that school, was found. The work that has been done was in fact the result of those conversations with the federal department and based on federal investments.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I know my time is going to run out too quickly, but perhaps we could have a summary to this committee in terms of calls to action 73 to 76, on what direct engagement, what direct dollars have flowed.

As we are speaking, my next question is actually from Chief Casimir. She's asked if you commit and promise to respect the policies, laws and protocols of this community as you move forward—unreservedly.

[Daniel Quan-Watson]

I can say that unreservedly.

In fact, the consultation about how the money should be spent got exactly that reaction across the country, from every single indigenous group we had. We were frequently told that it was the Crown's fault that those children were there, and that we needed to respect, now, the fact that it was the indigenous community's role to decide what to do with what was found.

So yes, unreservedly, I can commit to what you have suggested.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Chair, do I still have a little time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have one minute.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

In summary, do you also commit, specifically to TTS, to send to this committee everything that has been done in terms of calls to action 73 through to 76?

[Daniel Quan-Watson]

Yes. We will provide a full report of what we have done in relation to this particular first nation, as well as any other information that might be wanted by the committee.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I will be pleased to let them know, because those are some of the things they are concerned about. From their perspective, they have not felt that there has been much movement on 73 to 76.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much, Cathy.

Adam van Koeverden, you have six minutes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much to the officials who have joined us here today to share their insight and perspectives with us. It's so important that Canadians know and hear from you as we are navigating this together.

All Canadians from coast to coast to coast are shaken, upset and distraught by this discovery of the remains of 215 children, and the loss to the families who have these memories. It's reverberating, certainly in British Columbia and Kamloops, but across the country as well, and it's absolutely heartbreaking.

Yesterday we heard that $27 million was made available, which was first allocated in 2019, to support this ongoing work from call to action 74. As my colleague mentioned, it calls on the federal government to work with churches and indigenous community leaders to inform families of children, and to respond to families with appropriate commemoration ceremonies. This is heartbreaking work. This is tragic work.

I'm also glad to hear that there was some federal funding utilized in this discovery. Thank you for highlighting that.

My question is for whoever would like to take it.

Can you explain to the committee why the funding for this very important initiative was delayed, and do you believe that $27 million will be enough to support hurting communities across the country in continuing this important work?

[Daniel Quan-Watson]

I'd be happy to take that, Mr. Chair.

In budget 2019, as was noted, this money was made available. One thing that was very important and we knew at the time was that something as sensitive as this issue should not be something that the federal government simply decides in its own office spaces as to exactly what to do.

There will be many different approaches that indigenous communities want in order to deal with this. It's important to remember that, while the Kamloops school is situated in Kamloops, those children were taken, sometimes, from hundreds of kilometres away. One thing that many indigenous communities have reminded us of again and again is that they will not disturb other communities' ancestors' remains without engaging properly with them.

How to deal with these issues is very sensitive. We know that some communities have told us already that they intend simply to memorialize the location and not do further work. There will be other instances where people want to do deep forensic work, or at least work that resembles forensic work, for different reasons. We knew it was our job to listen to what they had to say. We knew it was our job not to repeat the mistakes that had been made in the past, which, in fact, led to many of these situations in which government simply made its own decisions about what it thought was best. Therefore, we conducted a consultation process.

As you can imagine, many of the people we most needed to speak to were those with living memory of the schools. Many of those are elders. Many of those consultations do not work well in the format we're using today. There were delays as a result of COVID-19, because many of the people you talk to don't have either the technical ability or, frankly, the Internet access to do this type of work. However, we conducted that consultation, and we came up with the approach that was announced yesterday.

The core of that is very much along the lines of what your colleague just asked about in the final question, which is whether we will respect the wishes of indigenous groups, what they want to do and want not to do. We got a universal message that it's what they were asking us, and we will do that.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Quan-Watson.

My second question builds on that. There have been calls across the country to investigate and search the grounds of every former residential school, and for the forensic work to begin immediately, but there have also been very important calls from indigenous communities that all of this work needs to be community led. It needs to be community informed. Those decisions need to be guided by the communities, the families in question and the people it will impact emotionally, physically and personally in such profound ways.

Would anybody like to comment on the importance of this work continuing to be community led?

[Daniel Quan-Watson]

I'll just speak quickly to it.

Again, there are many living relatives of some of the people who died at these schools—brothers and sisters, nieces, nephews and, in some instances, parents. The idea that the Crown would go in against their wishes to begin work is, I think, something that we would reject outright, but, where they want that work done, we would definitely support that. It was, again, at the core of the consultations we heard, and perhaps my colleague Mr. Reiher could speak quickly to the key messages he heard when he was managing those consultations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Go ahead, Mr. Reiher.

[Martin Reiher, Assistant Deputy Minister, Resolution and Partnerships, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Deputy.

Indeed, we heard that this work is extremely complex and very difficult to do. Building relationships based on respect, trust and developing partnerships with communities will be paramount. Residential schools had students from multiple communities, as the deputy mentioned, so it will be important to be inclusive of all impacted communities. It's important to ensure that the processes for memorialization and commemoration are community led, culturally appropriate, based on ceremony, respectful of protocols and focused on helping families acknowledge their loved ones.

We also heard that this initiative will put those impacted by the legacies of Indian residential schools at risk of re-traumatizing, and it's important to include true, mindful practices. We heard very well that CIRNAC must respect and follow the information of government protocols that communities have in place, as well as the family wishes, to ensure that we have the appropriate balance between family healing, privacy and the desire to let Canadians know about this tragic situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you so much.

Madam Bérubé.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I represent the constituency of Abitibi—Baie‑James—Nunavik—Eeyou, in which Cree and Anishnabe people live. We're all saddened by this terrible discovery last weekend. My thoughts are with the families and communities who are deeply affected by this tragedy. Today, we simply want to understand what happened. Meegwetch.

In the 2019 budget, the government announced an investment of $33.8 million over three years to implement calls to action 72 to 76 of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada.

However, it seems that, in reality, most of the money announced hasn't been spent. I'm just trying to understand why. Is the process stalled at the Treasury Board of Canada, or have other projects not been developed?