Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2020

[Natan Obed]

It's been interesting. Personal relationships matter a lot within the federal government, no matter what you might think about the idea of a bureaucracy. We have great relationships with departments like ESDC, Indigenous Services, Infrastructure Canada, the Public Health Agency, Health Canada, and we have other departments where there could be major announcements and we get nothing, as with Agriculture Canada in relation to food security.

Moving forward, I think building back better means recognizing infrastructure deficits and closing those deficits when it comes to health care and education, and also economic considerations to ensure there is one country when it comes to connectivity, infrastructure, a foundation for health care and education that allows for all of us to meet these pandemic realities in the same way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to another five-minute round, with Mr. Vidal.

Gary, please go ahead.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Mr. Chair, I think our order has Mr. Melillo up next.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I apologize for that.

Eric, please go ahead.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to direct my questions to Mr. Obed.

In my riding, and across northern Ontario, we've seen reductions in air service to many communities, particularly the remote communities that depend on that air service for their prosperity. Of course, many of the air carriers have had difficulties accessing government programs, for a variety of reasons.

Mr. Obed, I'm curious to know if you've seen similar reductions in air service capacity in Nunavut. If so, in your view, how has that impacted food security across the territory?

[Natan Obed]

Thanks for the question.

The reduction of air travel has been universal across Inuit Nunangat. There are many restrictions now for anybody to travel. There are two-week quarantine isolation requirements for much of the four regions of Inuit Nunangat. Also, a lot of the planes that fly are small planes, where it's very hard to be physically distanced, so the capacity on these planes has been reduced as well.

The end result is that there is a lot less opportunity for goods and services to flow, although through these business services contracts, these freight contracts, airlines have been able to keep going because of some of those very real realities where communities need freight to be flown day in and day out.

There's also the consideration around testing. If you have been tested, but then the flight doesn't come for three days, that has a massive implication on the ability for public health to understand how to respond to particular cases.

I think the sustainability issue is one that we really have to try to address in the long term, especially if this goes on for a lot longer. Because we have different companies and airlines that have serviced the remote regions of this country against all odds for a long, long time, in this particular reality I think there need to be subsidies considered, because these are essential services and we need to keep this infrastructure in place. There are no ways to get to our communities for the vast majority of the year other than through the air. That's just the reality for all of the services that we need during this pandemic.

I do hope that the federal government thinks of air transportation first within its infrastructure in regard to its COVID response.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Absolutely. Thank you very much.

Just to go back to the second part, about food security, we know that food security—maybe “food insecurity” is a better way to put it—across the territories is a challenge at the best of times. How has the pandemic impacted some of those challenges? Can you expand on that a little more?

[Natan Obed]

Yes. Sorry about that.

There have been some unexpected positive consequences of the pandemic. One is that more people have been on the land in the last six to eight months and therefore have been providing to the communities more of their country foods than generally in the most recent history.

There still is a huge reliance on perishable and non-perishable food items that are flown in or cargoed in—sealifted in. For this year, many people would have gone to the south, gathered non-perishable food items and then put them on sealifts. They would have them, then, for the entire year. That sealift season really didn't happen. Some people were able to find alternative ways, but for the most part, we're going into a winter where there will be more emphasis on store-bought foods and less on a stockpile, if you will, that individuals have to ensure that they have food security.

It remains to be seen. We haven't seen massive influxes of food insecurity based on the airlines operating differently, although we have seen delays in perishable items. Because the system has held to this date, we have not seen a wholesale collapse of the way in which non-perishable food items get to our communities, but that is a risk, and if we don't do more to support our airlines, these systems will become imperilled and people will suffer from food insecurity because of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

That brings us to your time.

It's time for five minutes with Marcus Powlowski.

Please go ahead.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you.

Welcome, guests. It seems that MPs from northwestern Ontario are a dime a dozen today, including Eric and me.

The indigenous communities in northwestern Ontario have, I think, done pretty well with the pandemic and haven't been that affected by it. I think they've done a really good job. Certainly, one of the concerns, however, is with the dependence on health care referral centres in more southern places. In northwestern Ontario, that isn't such a problem, because Thunder Bay is on the receiving end and Thunder Bay doesn't have a lot of COVID cases either.

Manitoba, however, used to be really good, but now places like Norway House, where I worked before as a doctor.... We used to refer all our cases, including pregnant women, to Winnipeg, which is obviously potentially a big problem now. Similarly to Mr. Obed, I worked in Iqaluit, and the more complicated medical cases there went either to Montreal or to Ottawa. Again, there's a big concern regarding possible source of transmission when people come back from health services.

My question is, what are you doing to ensure that you don't get transmission that way? Are you just getting people to self-isolate for a couple of weeks? Is there enforcement of that? Have you considered possibly changing referral centres so that instead of sending people from Iqaluit to Montreal, you send them to somewhere that has a lower number of cases?

The other concern is that people who are sick have to go to those places, but also.... Say you're in Norway House and you've been having chest pains. You'll want to get a stress test. You may not want to go to Winnipeg, given the concern about COVID in Winnipeg. Similarly, if you need a colonoscopy and you are from.... I guess Iqaluit can do them, but if there are other kinds of testing, you'd have to be sent down. I would think that's a concern, that we're not picking up cases early enough because of people not wanting to go to the referral centres.

I leave those questions to anybody who wants to answer them.

[David Chartrand]

If you don't mind, Marcus, let me start off with Manitoba. Of course you know we're in red and orange. We're definitely in one hell of a crisis here right now. It's a scary place to be right now. We're at 97% capacity in our hospitals province-wide. There's just no way that anybody can take anybody right now. Over 200 physicians, doctors and experts warned the province that they should never have sat down, rested and taken it for granted that we were in good shape, that everybody else was in bad shape but we were good. There should have been a strategy, and that strategy was not there. Now we're paying the price for that. There's obviously a lesson to be learned, and we should go back and reflect upon it.

We are very fearful of it right now. We don't know where we can go if something does come, if the pandemic hits our villages. For our Métis villages, for example, or the Norway House example—you know that—and next door to them also, if they get hit hard out there, there'll be hell to pay. There's nowhere to go. They have a small facility there that will be fully utilized. I think they're still building their hospital. If you look at it in general terms, you're absolutely right. From anywhere in the north you have to go south. Nobody wants to go to Winnipeg, but you can't anyway. Nobody's going to take you. If you're sick, if you're in the ICU for a heart operation or something, you're in big trouble because they're delaying surgeries now. We're in a very, very dangerous zone right now in our province.

I shouldn't be critical, but our government failed miserably on this one, and it's going to hurt. It's costing lives. We've never seen that. Yesterday we were at 80 deaths altogether already. It's rapidly increasing. As you say, we're worse off than anybody else in this country, and I don't know where we're going to find ourselves when the dust finally settles, when we get some kind of control.

I'm very thankful, as a Métis leader. We have a very strong communication system. As I said, we delivered over 6,000 hampers last year to keep all of our elders inside their houses, and we're doing it again right now. We're in full swing right now across the province and we're trying to make sure that our young generation.... That's another one that all of us in this country need to focus on. We need to tell the younger generation that they, too, have a responsibility to be carrying the value of their grandparents and their parents.

We keep using our communication strategy and we tell them, “Yes, you're strong. Yes, you may survive this COVID, but just imagine for a second that you give it to your grandpa, your grandma, your uncle or your aunt and they die. What are you going to carry on your shoulders for the rest of your life?” We've tried to scare them on that because it's real. We're not trying to make it up. It is real. We have a very good, robust communication strategy and the numbers are showing that our communication strategy is working. I think, as I said, if it weren't for federal Canada right now, for us, we'd be in a hell of a big trouble in our province, in the Métis nation, and I think among indigenous people in general.

Again, I cross my fingers. I'm a religious man. I pray at night and I pray in the morning. I do pray that we're going to find a way out of this mess, because this is a scary one right now for us in Manitoba.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chartrand.

Mr. Vidal, I have you up next for a five-minute round. Are you ready to go?

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I am, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much.

I also want to thank all of our witnesses, as everybody else has today, for their time; I know it's valuable. Your input and remarks are appreciated by all of us.

I want all three of you to have the opportunity to answer this question. I'm going to do this quite quickly.

First nations, Inuit and Métis people have from the beginning of the pandemic acted very quickly to ensure the safety of their people. You've done a great job of that. I want to commend you for that.

On August 12, the second round of the community support fund was announced. Just yesterday, it was announced that the application process is going to be open for a little better than half of that money, while the other half of it is going to be allocated directly to first nations, Inuit and Métis people. I would like you to comment on any concerns or any value that you would see in the application process, which isn't going to close until November 30. Then there's the associated decision on who's going to get that money. I'm guessing there are going to be plenty of applications for the amount of money included.

I would like you all to comment on the timing, the process, how you feel about that and how it's impacting the people you represent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Madame Poitras, do you want to start with that?

[Regional Chief Marlene Poitras]

Thank you very much.

When I saw that the $160 million was open to applications, I was concerned about it because there are some first nations that don't have the capacity at their level to write really good proposals. They're going to be left out again. As I said previously, first nations need resources, but they need them now. This pandemic is rising and it's creating great concern. To institute an application process takes time. There's a big delay in terms of the services that are provided.

Yes, it's a concern for me.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Vice-President Chartrand or President Obed, who wants to jump in here first?

[David Chartrand]

Thank you again for that question, Mr. Vidal.

From our perspective, as I said, I do commend the federal government on this action. If there's a lesson to be learned here, this is a good one.

It is working. The ministers are stepping in behind the scenes and making it clear that even though the policies are being written.... For example, if the application process is too cumbersome, they are making revisions to make it clear so that it finds its way to our government so we can get it to our citizens. I do commend the government on that part of it. They are doing an excellent job on that side of it for the Métis nation. I have no complaints coming from our side. Any political party.... If you follow that pathway of a distinction-based approach, where it's measurable and accountable, the transparency is there. For example, the Métis nation, the first nations, Inuit, as you heard Natan say, all directly get our own share of the funding. Then we can divvy it up to our systems and let our governments decide what's best for our community.

It's really working, Mr. Vidal. I think it's a good example for anybody. Maybe because you guys pressure a lot to make sure that this money gets to us, it's working. It's working in many ways right now. We're very appreciative of that.

[Natan Obed]

I agree with Vice-President Chartrand.

In the second round of the community support fund, we would have preferred that more of that portion had gone directly through in the way in which the first allocation of funding did, which was through the self-determination processes among first nations, Inuit and Métis representatives.

I think the challenge for the second round is one of access. In my conversations with the Prime Minister and with Minister Miller, they've always said that this is what we're doing at this point in time. They've always reassured us that there would be more money to meet the needs if the need is identified. I am still hopeful that this is still something we can see as a principle moving forward. Even if this second round is in two different pots, there is more money for the identified need as the need becomes [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have half a minute left, Gary.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you.

Maybe just quickly, a number of you referred to the 5% indigenous procurement and some of the challenges for your businesses. Regional Chief Poitras, could you just comment on the challenges of not meeting those targets of indigenous procurement and the impact it has on your businesses?

[Regional Chief Marlene Poitras]

I'll speak to the issue of casinos in Alberta, for example. They have the first nations development fund, and all first nations in Alberta were able to access those funds. But now because of the shutdown, they had to close down a lot of casinos and they're struggling to maintain the operation to the level they did prior to the shutdown. They require the extra stimulus. When they announce funds for the economic recovery, first nations get significantly less than what's provided to the provinces for economic stimulus. That's a problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks for your short answer.

We're moving along to a two-and-a-half-minute question.

Madame Bérubé, you have two and a half minutes. Please go ahead.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Obed.

You said that rapid testing wasn't necessarily faster. What do you think should be done to make testing faster?

[Natan Obed]

We continue to have ongoing conversations with Health Canada, with the Public Health Agency, Indigenous Services, and the four public governments that service Inuit Nunangat communities.

Around testing, we have a structure called the Inuit public health task group, where chief medical officers of health sit beside senior technical leaders from the Inuit regions, so we have a partnership already. We have a way in which to talk about how to strategically align Inuit-specific considerations and public government considerations.

We aren't at a place yet where there are, number one, the rapid access testing protocols that have been approved by the Government of Canada and by other jurisdictions to employ in Inuit Nunangat. But when we do, it will be a matter of access. As we've seen with every different stage of the pandemic globally, when there is an intervention there is never enough of it based on the population in need. We have been continuing to lobby for Inuit Nunangat to be considered a special consideration and a high priority for things like rapid access testing technology to be employed by the Government of Canada. That goes down to a vaccine as well.

Right now, the biggest consideration is access to these types of rapid access solutions. Also, access to the lab testing that's required [Inaudible-Editor]. We have very little capacity or no capacity, depending on the region, to have labs analyze results for a COVID test.

We are behind when it comes to every aspect of testing and identification of COVID. We have been very fortunate so far that we don't have high rates of COVID-19 in our communities. But if that changes, we need to solve these outstanding challenges in regard to access to testing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Blaney, you have two and a half minutes. Please go ahead.