Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 10th, 2021

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you.

I have probably one final question. COVID-19 magnified the realities of some of the jurisdictional quagmires around indigenous people in urban settings. You and I have had the conversation many times about friendship centres and the funding. It took some time to kind of make it through the community support funding process for the urban indigenous folks. Friendship centres offer a variety of services that are as diverse as the communities they serve. I know that friendship centres are looking for a longer-term commitment so that they can plan for their future, invest in infrastructure, make sure they have commitments to programs that are ongoing, and make good, efficient decisions.

Is there anything going on with any of the budget work or the estimate work that would provide that long-term commitment for friendship centres that serve urban indigenous people?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Yes, certainly, MP Vidal, in budget 2021 there is a large pot of funding for infrastructure that we are currently parsing out, working with community members to see how that would fold out based on need and based on shovel-ready projects. There is a lot of light and hope at the end of the tunnel.

Certainly, the amounts that we've announced through the indigenous community support fund through COVID, for which there will be four or five waves—the latest one went out last week—has a rubric, an envelope, that is dedicated to the work the friendship centres are doing, serving indigenous communities off reserve, and also with room for tribal councils serving their people who live outside their communities. That's an important element and aspect to it. What we—

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Sorry: Is that beyond COVID-19, Minister? Is that longer-term or ongoing funding beyond COVID?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Well, yes, I guess what I was trying to say was that there has been some immense work done under COVID that has been transformative in the work we will be doing going forward in highlighting that relationship. It is a different one from a nation-to-nation relationship, obviously, with friendship centres that have a different form of governance and others that serve community members. It's one that we want to work toward. Knowing the number of indigenous folks who live outside their home communities, it is so key. In budget 2021, although it was not specifically earmarked, there will be some funding for urban indigenous initiatives.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

That's the time there. Thank you very much.

Adam van Koeverden, you have six minutes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will have two questions for the minister. I would start by asking him to answer the first one, and to leave enough time to answer the second.

First, in January 2020, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families came into effect to affirm the jurisdiction of indigenous communities over child and family services. How will this act support the well-being of indigenous children and families and provide culturally relevant care to children? Could you please provide an update on the implementation of this act?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

What we've seen throughout, and particularly what has become quite poignant and top of mind over the last week, is that Canada and the provinces have been administering a broken system for some time. We can talk about compensation, which is very important. When we talk about transformation, that's when we have to talk about the legislation that was passed just before the prior election. It's shifting, in the spirit of self-determination, a system that was focused on prevention, and not culturally appropriate, to one that is...or rather, from intervention to prevention. When it's embodied and ensconced in the language of self-determination, it is an effort to lift up communities in how they protect their own—again, something we've taken for granted.

It is long work. It requires an intense amount of consultation. There was about $500 million in the fall economic statement dedicated to building capacity. That's something that will be deployed over five years. Additional investments will be required as communities bring home their children and pass their legislation to lift it up.

When I said to Gary that it was slow, an important principle was embodied when the law came into force—the minimum standard of the child. It is a signal to all of Canada and to courts that they can no longer sanction practices that removed disproportionately indigenous children from their families based on such issues as poverty. That is still the challenge for every single government in the future, to keep combatting a poverty discrimination that is the legacy of our colonial past.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I thank the minister, Mr. Chair.

On June 2, the coroner's inquest into the death of Joyce Echaquan ended. Throughout the inquest, Canadians across the country learned new details about the mistreatment that Joyce Echaquan suffered shortly before her death.

What plans have been put in place to combat anti-indigenous racism in the health care system? What could the government do to ensure that the indigenous peoples, in particular indigenous women, have equitable access to health care?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I presume that this is the question that all of the people in the rest of Canada who were able to attend the coroner's hearings or hear the reporting on those painful moments are asking themselves. This is what is experienced by many if not all indigenous people, who are apprehensive about a health care system that I consider to be first class, myself, but that has often treated them as second class or even third class persons.

During the coroner's inquest, we once again heard things about the reality of daily life for indigenous people who use the health care system, at a time when they are most vulnerable. I have been in almost daily contact with Joyce Echaquan's husband Carol Dubé, who is going through a very difficult time that he is facing with courage and strength. He and his family are still having some very hard times. As I said before, this is the reality experienced by some indigenous people who use the Canadian health care system, which is a jurisdiction jealously guarded by all provinces. That is the case everywhere in Canada.

My mandate is to put in place a law based on the distinctions, to combat anti-indigenous racism in the indigenous health care systems, in particular, but also to transform the system. Some elements have to operate at the same time. Obviously, this reform will be a lengthy and very difficult process, given the jurisdictional disputes that have existed in the past.

One thing that we announced in the budget was a $100 million fund in honour of Joyce Echaquan to combat racism in the health care system directly. I want to stress that this racism exists everywhere in Canada.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Chair, I will yield my remaining time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much, Mr. Van Koeverden. I'm sure that will be much appreciated by Madame Bérubé and others.

Sylvie, please go ahead for six minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am speaking from my office in Val-d'Or, which is on the traditional territory of the Algonquin, Cree and Anishinaabe peoples.

I thank the minister and all the witnesses for being here today.

My question is for Mr. Miller.

In the 2019 budget, the government had announced a figure of $33.8 million over three years to implement the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's calls to action 72 to 78. The Prime Minister and yourself have reiterated that the government has invested that money.

Do you agree with me that a budget statement is worthless if Parliament does not authorize the proposed spending, yes or no?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I agree with you on one thing: I am making no excuses for the late deployment of those funds. As you know, supporting communities in their grief and when searches are necessary is a hugely delicate process. It is very intrusive and traumatizing, and it is understandable that it can take time to get answers.

The indigenous peoples want answers, and the message I have for them today is this: in addition to the $27 million that was approved by Treasury Board, Canada will be here for all communities that want to conduct searches. They are the ones who will set the tone. We cannot do it without their completely informed consent, given the sensitive nature of the process.

Protocols have to be established and I don't think the communities have pre-established protocols for this kind of atrocity, and that is why we have to give them space and time. However, that must not be interpreted as an excuse for not spending this money. If the communities need additional support or the expertise of the Government of Canada, we will be here for them.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Yesterday, in response to a journalist who asked you about the $27 million, you replied:

The money was announced in the 2019 budget, and, if I am not mistaken, it passed Treasury Board very recently, so the money is available. Regarding the appropriation ..., I could do the research for you, but I assure you that it is available.

So can you tell me whether that money actually appears, in whole or in part, in the supplementary estimates (A) that we are examining today?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I will let one of my experts who are here today answer that question, because I do not yet have the answer to the question asked by Boris Proulx.

[Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Department of Indigenous Services]

From what I understand, the $27 million is in the supplementary estimates (A) of our colleagues at Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs. That money is therefore not part of the supplementary estimates (A) that are under consideration today.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

When we examine the public accounts of Canada for 2019 to 2020 and the main estimates for the three years after the 2019 budget, we see that this money was not included in the budget, except for the $3.2 million that appeared in the 2020-2021 supplementary estimates (B).

Can you explain what became of the rest of the $33.8 million?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

That falls under Ms. Bennett's mandate, in particular.

I may be corrected on the precise amounts, but it is money that was paid to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. I may be wrong and that may have to be corrected afterward. Mr. Thompson may want to correct me.

[Philippe Thompson]

That is also what I understand, that these funds are not part of the department's reference level. Unfortunately, I can't offer you any more information about that money.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Do you agree with me that, in reality, the money announced in the 2019 budget was essentially never spent by Parliament, that it was not authorized in the form of appropriations?

Can you explain that for me, please?

[Philippe Thompson]

If the money was not paid to the department, we could not spend it. Unfortunately, I am not able to speak to the amounts that were approved in the budget but that were not part of the Department of Indigenous Services' reference levels.

It is hard for me to give a more detailed answer.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Was it blocked by Treasury Board, do you think?

[Philippe Thompson]

I can't tell you that exactly.

As I said, if the money was intended for the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, it is that department's budget process that was involved and we have no role to play in it. My colleagues at the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs might be able to give you more details about how that money was used, and whether or not it was spent.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

In December, I received the answer to one of my written questions concerning the implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's calls to action 81 and 82.

In its answer, the government told us that only 0.5% full-time equivalent position was assigned to implementing call to action 82, which, we will recall, involves building a monument to the memory of the victims of indigenous residential schools, in Ottawa.

I will ask the question again that I asked the other day. Do you not think that this is insufficient for implementing that call to action?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Be very brief.