Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2020

[Raymond Wanuch]

Thank you. Same to you.

Cando has been around since the early nineties. We average about 400 members annually. We work with a number of accredited educational institutions across the country to provide a certification. We think and believe that if you are going to take training, then you might as well get some university or college credit for it. That's what we have been doing. We do a lot of stuff now online. If you become certified through Cando, for every dollar invested you create $4.40 in Canada's GDP.

We also hold a number of events. Of course, as we all know, with COVID we're doing that all virtually now. We're doing a lot of events and webinars with the office of small and medium enterprises across the country. With these events, in B.C., for example, we used to do what we called “B.C. Links to Learning”. For every dollar invested in that event, $6.70 was created back in the communities just by attending those events.

These are huge impacts that have to continue. The problem is that a lot of our EDOs are funded annually on a per-capita basis. Some communities will get $7,500 a year while another community will get close to a million. We're trying to be strategic. We have looked at the analysis on trying to make a fair and equitable investment for that.

We have many partnerships. One of the partnerships we have is with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, where we do the community economic development initiative. That's where we pair a first nation with their surrounding municipality to work on joint economic development strategies. We have done that for the past seven years. We have had 15 pairings. One of note is Enoch Cree Nation and the City of Edmonton. Last year Enoch Cree Nation saw the creation of a new water treatment plant. For the first time ever in their history, water from the North Saskatchewan River is now being delivered at Enoch Cree Nation.

It's those kinds of relationships that are being built through the study program. It's a form of what my uncle regional chief Wilton Littlechild says is “reconciliaction”. That's what it is. We're actually boots on the ground and working with municipalities to make these partnerships produce some contribution to, of course, the GDP.

Speaking of the GDP, our population says we should be producing $100 billion annually. A few of my colleagues have said it's anywhere from $26 billion, what we're producing now, to a high of $44 billion. Needless to say, there's a huge gap of almost $50 billion to $60 billion annually. For example, I mentioned the Blood Tribe, the Kainai first nation, in southern Alberta. They should be producing half a billion a year. They produce $100 million. There's a gap of $400 million that they have to make up. However, that corner of the country has high systemic racism. They know they have to get into the city of Lethbridge to start talking about creating new businesses or even taking over businesses, but there's no process for them to do that. Again, that's why we need the study program. It's to go in there and produce these results.

The study program in the upcoming year is cut back. COVID-19 is a big blame for that. Our budget is going to be status quo. We can only produce five pairings. When we initially ran the study program, there were close to 400 applications from throughout Canada. We have serviced 3% of that. Needless to say, we need other partners to step up and come to the party. I'm currently talking to the provincial government here in Alberta about coming in as a partner to do that.

The other thing I should mention—and it has been mentioned by your previous guest Éric, and Tabatha has mentioned it as well—is the indigenous task force for COVID-19. What we are trying to do now is to create that so that it becomes open to any kind of procurement across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I have to stop you there, Raymond. We're a bit over time on that, but we'll certainly come back to these points through our conversation.

I believe now Shannin Metatawabin's IT is okay.

Shannin, you have six minutes to speak on behalf of the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association. Go ahead.

[Shannin Metatawabin, Chief Executive Officer, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association]

Meegwetch. Waciye.

Hi, my name is Shannin Metatawabin. I'm the CEO of the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association. I'm a member of the Fort Albany First Nation of the Mushkegowuk nation. Before I start, I wish to acknowledge that I am taking this call on the traditional territory of the Mi'kmaq nation.

Thank you for the invitation to speak today.

I'd like to address what support our financial network has been able to provide indigenous businesses, what challenges we have faced and what our clients need moving forward.

You might recall that I presented to you back in [Technical difficulty—Editor] aboriginal financial institutions. Our members are indigenous-owned and led organizations that provide developmental loans to hundreds of first nations, Inuit and Métis businesses every year.

In April 2020, our network received $306.8 million to support indigenous businesses impacted by the COVID-19 crisis. Of this total, $204 million was to support emergency loans to indigenous businesses. Our members were grateful for this relief funding.

To date, and despite the inequitable terms and conditions of the indigenous-specific programming compared with other federal measures, 37 AFIs have distributed over $60 million to 1,500 indigenous businesses across the country.

Our clients have told us that these loans, provided by the same indigenous institutions they have relied on in the past, are filling a gap. The loans fill this gap, but they do not provide what the network requested when the crisis first began. We had proposed a timely package tailored to indigenous businesses. To date, such a package has eluded us. We have met with obstacles in securing the indigenous-specific relief funding as equitable compared to non-indigenous ones.

These are my recommendations to address these issues.

The relief funding for indigenous businesses needs to come without delay. The federal government released the funding for the CEBA in early April, only a few weeks after the crisis hit. Due to delays in negotiating contribution agreements with ISC, our network could not offer relief until mid-June. These funds simply came too late for some first nations, Métis and Inuit businesses.

The timing issues persist with the second wave. On October 9, Canada announced further relief funding of $20,000 for businesses. By October 26, that funding was available to smaller businesses. Meanwhile, our network still awaits word on whether we can offer the same additional $20,000. At this rate, it will again be two months before we can offer this lifeline to our clients.

The larger portion of the relief package available to indigenous businesses needs to be non-repayable. We're talking a lot about that task force survey; 40% of them indicated that they could not take on any more debt. This is a big reason why we need to provide more non-repayable relief to indigenous businesses. On top of all the barriers that they currently face, they're going to have to work twice as hard to ensure that they repay a loan, so providing something similar to the Ontario program, which is fifty-fifty, would be better.

The terms and conditions of our relief package need to be equitable to other federal measures. Our members have been making loans for several months now. Early on, they noted certain discrepancies between the conditions attached to the indigenous-specific loans and other federal measures, particularly for rural businesses delivered by some regional development agencies and community futures development corporations.

Despite repeated requests from NACCA, the indigenous-specific measures are burdened with lower stacking limits and more-onerous lending terms than emergency loans provided to the CFDCs. Some of the members have been forced to turn away their own clients and refer them instead to the non-indigenous RDA or CFDC. This situation is demoralizing.

We request this committee's support. The restrictions enhance the ability of our government agency to extend relief to our clients at the expense of their own indigenous institutions. This situation is more troubling considering the mandate of Indigenous Services Canada to promote indigenous capacity and evolution.

Aboriginal financial institutions work tirelessly to develop solutions for, and with, indigenous people. We live and work in the community. At a disadvantage before COVID hit, indigenous businesses will need to work twice as hard than the average Canadian business to repay their loans. AFIs will work twice as hard at helping them get through this crisis. We're calling for a second phase of support that comes without delay, is indigenous led and is tailored to the specific needs of our community.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much, Mr. Metatawabin.

IT folks, that was loud and clear. Thank you so much.

It's time for our six-minute round of questioning. My speakers will be Mr. Vidal, Ms. Damoff, Madam Bérubé and Ms. Blaney.

Please go ahead, Gary Vidal, for six minutes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Mr. Chair, I think our first speaker in the order will be Mr. Melillo.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Okay.

Mr. Melillo, go ahead.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Gary, for offering that up to me.

Ms. Bull, obviously with the pandemic many businesses have been switching to online and e-commerce. They're trying to operate in that manner. In many northern and rural regions, access to Internet is a very big issue. It really doesn't exist for many people across my riding.

I'm wondering if you could speak about how Internet access in many rural areas is impacting the way in which indigenous businesses are able to adapt to this pandemic and provide some of their goods online.

[Tabatha Bull]

We definitely have heard from many members that access to Internet and stable Internet is an issue. It has been an issue for some time. It's not only communities that are quite rural. I'm from the same community as Dr. Restoule. I was quite impressed with her Internet today. When I work from Nipissing First Nation, it's difficult even to participate in virtual conversations like this. We were pleased to see the more recent announcements around broadband infrastructure made by Minister Bains recently, and by provinces as well. Ontario has stepped up to do some additional funding.

We know that a number of our businesses and a number of members have pivoted to e-commerce, with support from a number of corporations, but they often have to work in the evenings or work at night to ensure that they get their orders and payments through. It definitely is putting them at a disadvantage. We encourage the government to do what they can to move the innovation forward for broadband in rural and remote communities.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much.

Another issue in my riding is that we have a lot of seasonal operations. Tourism is the catalyst for most of our business in northwestern Ontario. Many indigenous businesses—marinas, lodges, you name it—rely on a lot of tourists, who of course weren't able to come this year. Americans tourists, obviously, with the border closure weren't able to come, and many other people from Manitoba and from across Canada didn't feel comfortable crossing the border and coming out to my region around Kenora to spend their summer.

I've been hearing from a lot of tourism operators and a lot indigenous-owned operations that they knew this year was going to be tough. They said they were holding out, really, for the 2021 season: We recognize that the border needs to be closed, we recognize that these regulations need to be in place, and if it works and we can get through to 2021, we'll be okay.

It's now late in the season, and it's not really certain what that operation will look like next year. I'm wondering if you have a sense of how some of the seasonal operations are preparing for the possibility of losing most, or potentially all, of their season again.

[Tabatha Bull]

We've definitely heard concern from our members in the tourism sector. That is one of the largest-growing industries in indigenous business. A lot of those businesses are young. We need to ensure that we're sustaining them in business through this period.

I participated in the finance standing committee recently, where we talked quite a bit about tourism and the new changes to CEWS to help those businesses be able to sustain and continue in operations and be there next year when people are able travel. We've seen some good investment from provinces again. An example is Indigenous Tourism Ontario. There are some really interesting and innovative ways of doing virtual tourism through some indigenous business members. Origin is a good example, out of Thunder Bay, not far from your riding.

I think we need to look at investment into how we can ensure that those tourism operators are able to continue to operate and continue to be sustained so that they're there when people are ready and able to travel again.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Your last comment was going into what I was going to ask next.

How can the government really help a lot of those people and businesses prepare for next season? Could you provide a bit more clarity on what that season might look like?

[Tabatha Bull]

It's very important across all provinces. We're seeing this everywhere—the provinces, the municipalities and the federal government—on consistent messaging on restrictions and consistent messaging on business shutdowns and closures, and the requirements for them.

We really need to look at how we're messaging that across all provinces and for all industries, but also ensuring that we are looking at a regional base as well. We should be looking specifically at certain tourism areas and certain areas of the country that may be able to open, and asking how we can better support the businesses that aren't from the perspective of innovation and marketing campaigns.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

That brings us to our next round of questioning.

Ms. Damoff, you have six minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for your testimony.

I'm going to start with Ms. Bull and go back to procurement. The numbers you gave us on PPE are really quite awful. I spoke to a business here in my riding that was able to apply, but didn't get a contract. The owner was extremely frustrated with the process.

You mentioned a navigator function. Do you have any other recommendations on how we can improve the number of indigenous businesses able to take advantage of government contracts?

[Tabatha Bull]

We have seen the set-aside procurement opportunities. The $2.5 million did come from a specific procurement call for indigenous businesses for masks, but there were 233 organizations that bid on that, and there were seven contracts. We definitely know there is opportunity there from indigenous businesses, and we know the government has more needs on purchasing masks. That's an immediate opportunity for us to go it again with another RFP.

There is definitely a lot of frustration—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Can I ask you something about that though?

You said 233 and seven were awarded contracts.

[Tabatha Bull]

Yes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Are those 233 considered again, or are they just lost? That's a huge discrepancy.

[Tabatha Bull]

My understanding is that there would have to be another call, because they did meet what the requirement was for the number of masks.

The other thing we've really seen as a helpful function, and we've been doing this with our partners at OSME, is to help businesses understand what happened with their initial bid.

Initially, they may have been disqualified because they just filled something out wrong, but there needs to be an opportunity and a better way for PSPC and OSME to meet with indigenous businesses and help them understand what might have gone wrong in the process so that next time they can apply again.

We've heard businesses say they have submitted numerous RFPs over the course of years and have never been successful with government procurement. We need to close the loop on those opportunities. That would be a great help for businesses.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

That was what the gentleman from my riding indicated as well. He just didn't know what he had done wrong. He was not able to get any feedback on his application.

You mentioned women-owned businesses. Obviously, they've been impacted much more than other businesses. Do you have any recommendations on how we can support those women-owned businesses? Is it funding? Is it even Internet access?

I know, in Six Nations, there are a number of women who have businesses that are more craft-oriented. Even at Six Nations, they don't have reliable Internet. Could you speak a bit about what we could do to support those women-owned indigenous businesses?

[Tabatha Bull]

It's definitely broadband. I sit on a call every Sunday with about 60 women-owned businesses. Many of them are retail businesses, so they have a craft or a product and have pivoted to e-commerce. They've done really well, some of them, in pivoting and bringing their products together and curating indigenous gifts.

However, their biggest need is access to financing. We see more women-owned businesses that are financed privately or from their own savings. There is still a bias about women-owned businesses accessing funding through traditional banks. As Shannin noted, those businesses cannot take on more debt. Loan programs are not something they are.... It's too risky for them to go in that directions.

The other thing, which I know we're all talking about across the country, is affordable child care and access to affordable child care. That burden—not the burden of children—that extra responsibility definitely does fall more on women, as we all know, and if you're trying to operate your own business, there needs to be a real focus on affordable child care.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I love that answer. Thank you.

The second wave is hitting right across the country this time. It's not just isolated to certain provinces, except that Atlantic Canada is maybe a little bit better.

What specific federal programs would you like to see? Are you being consulted as we're moving into the second wave to ensure that you're part of the discussions at the beginning and not an afterthought?

[Tabatha Bull]

I would say that I don't feel we're being consulted as much now as we were at the beginning of COVID.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay.

[Tabatha Bull]

As organizations—and I'll let my colleagues speak to this as well—we're definitely reaching out and continuing to have discussions with Indigenous Services Canada.

However, as I have been saying throughout this whole pandemic, these issues need to be across all of government and not only through discussions with Indigenous Services Canada and CIRNA. ISED needs to be thinking about how to support indigenous economic recovery, as does NRCan, Finance and the Treasury Board. Too often we see that those conversations only happen with ISC and CIRNA. They need to be considered across government.