Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 22nd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Minister, let's go to you.

The clock is running. We have three minutes and 44 seconds left.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

How many audits?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

The member opposite may not like my response, but I am responding to the member opposite. I'm talking about indigeneity and how important it is that the Government of Canada get out of the business of determining who is indigenous and work with—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I know it's important, Minister.

How many audits? I will tell you, because—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Brock, I'm going to have to suspend if we continue this. It cannot happen. We will suspend. The interpreters cannot do their job. We can't follow when both people are speaking.

I would say to give the minister five seconds or 10 seconds, and we'll move it back to you to get the response you're asking for.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I gave her more than five seconds and 10 seconds, Chair. She doesn't want to give me an answer as to how many audits have been conducted in the last 10 years. That is the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Minister, the floor is yours for that question.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair—and thanks for attempting to have some civility in this place.

I will say that it's important to understand the purpose of the list if we're talking about audits. The purpose of the list is not to determine, from our department's perspective, the procurement process itself but, really, to provide support to other departments around the indigeneity of—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

The answer, for Canadians, is four, and those four were completed in the last two years.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Brock, I'm sorry, but I'm going to pause here for a second. I'm going to stop the clock.

Mr. McLeod, I see your hand up. I don't know if this is a point of order. Sometimes there are audio issues, and I just want to make sure that we're dealing with this. We're at two and a half minutes left.

Mr. McLeod, the floor is yours.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Mr. Chairman, I'm really reluctant to interrupt this interesting discussion, but can you ask the members not to yell? I don't know what the interpreters are going through, but it's very difficult for me to participate if somebody's yelling into the mic or talking extremely loudly.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you, Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Battiste, is this a point of order?

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Yes, just in terms of what Michael said—and I'm sure he doesn't want to say this—I know that Larry's new to this committee, but we have folks here who are dealing with hearing disabilities, and so for someone to yell into the microphone makes it very difficult for them.

I just ask that, out of consideration for some of the members we have here and for the interpreters, you show a bit more sensitivity for their ailments.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I think the point has been made here.

I'm starting the clock again, so there are two and a half minutes left.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

May I respond to that point of order?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're getting into debate. I think the point, simply, is that we can have only one person speaking at a time, and we can't have people speaking...I'd say, just try to not be—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

How much time do I have left, Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

You have two minutes and 33 seconds.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, your government provided a list of contractors through indigenous procurement, but did not list any subcontractors. Canadians simply don't know where their money is flowing. How can you be assured that the money isn't flowing to subcontractors working out of their basements here in Ottawa, without a penny flowing to first nations communities?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'll turn to the officials to talk a bit about the process of how people are certified to help—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Minister, with all due respect—

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

You just asked a question.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

—that's an insult to members at this table. We don't want to know about process. I want to have a relevant response to the question, Minister. You haven't given me a response yet that has been relevant to any of the questions I put to you.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Actually, you did ask me a process question because you asked me how we determine an indigenous company, and how we follow and track what that indigenous company does. That, to me, the way my mind works as a former planner, is a process question, and so I would like to turn to officials to—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

How much money has been flowing through subcontractors actually employed by indigenous owners, with money going to indigenous communities? Just give the number, please.