Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 29th, 2022

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to my fellow committee members, and to Chairperson Delorme, Vice-Chief Derocher and President Lehr, thank you so much for your time today.

I'm from a Wabanaki territory, where Mi'kmaq and Wolastoqey communities.... It's a privilege, and I feel grateful to learn more about Métis communities, particularly about those land-based rights.

On December 17, 2018, the Metis Settlements General Council signed a framework agreement with the Government of Canada, and the framework agreement provides for a negotiation process, with a view to, among other matters, jointly develop a government-to-government relationship between the Crown and the Metis Settlements General Council that advances reconciliation between the governments. One of those priorities for negotiation includes exploratory discussions around the unique needs and the existing structures dealing with housing on Métis settlement lands.

For President Lehr, since the signing of the framework agreement, what progress has been made, if any, on the priorities of Metis Settlements General Council, specifically those around housing?

[Herb Lehr]

Nothing at this point in time from the federal government when it comes to the housing component.... This has actually been the first move that we've heard of anything to deal with it. We did deal with infrastructure a little earlier, but again, that really didn't fall under the auspices of the framework agreement. COVID of course stopped a lot of the conversations that were supposed to be transpiring, and we did get some COVID relief funds to our communities, of which general council took less than 1%, and made sure that 99% went to the communities.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much.

For Chairperson Delorme, through the rapid housing initiative, last month, the Buffalo Lake Métis Settlement was allocated $4.3 million for funding for housing for vulnerable residents in particular. Could you share with the committee the plans for the funding, the rollout and the allocation process?

[Stan Delorme]

First of all, I must say that we are grateful for the dollars that have been provided for the transitional housing program, which is greatly needed here for our settlement. The only problem with that is that these units are a lot smaller, and they're only meant for transitional purposes, for families who are on a waiting list for a housing program, for example. It's obviously welcomed with open arms.

We're just in the process of building the units. We hope to have some here within the next month, on Métis settlement land. We're looking to utilize that housing program to its fullest, and hopefully, we can provide those units to families after they settle here in Buffalo Lake through this program and help them out into bigger and better homes.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much.

For Vice-Chief Derocher, you mentioned an elders' lodge, and we've heard a lot from communities about the needs around senior care in particular, and culturally responsive care. I would love to hear more about the process of setting up your elders' lodge and how it serves your community.

[Vice-Chief Richard Derocher]

Our elders' lodge started with a partnership with Habitat for Humanity out of Lloydminster. It was a 10-apartment complex. Flying Dust ended up doing it by themselves, because Habitat for Humanity were going to come to the table with some donations and that didn't bear fruit. Habitat for Humanity's heart was in it 100% and they stayed with us right until the end, but we took all of Flying Dust First Nation's own-source revenue to build that 10-apartment facility. Unfortunately, the general public didn't donate as we thought they would to the project.

As I indicated, it is a home for people over 65 who still have the ability to look after themselves. They may have issues, health-wise. We have our nurses and our health staff going mostly on a daily basis to go check on the elders and such. The majority of that—in fact all of the money—came from own-source revenue from Flying Dust First Nation.

Thank you.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you.

We know that the federal government supports housing the best that it can. There's certainly a role to play for own-source revenue and for communities, but there are barriers there as well.

President Lehr, if you want to address that, what kind of barriers exist in increasing own-source revenue or for funding opportunities for housing in your community?

[Herb Lehr]

It's quite massive. I have to say that in the legislation that we have provincially, there needs to be some vacancy created for our section 35 rights. We're in a trilateral arrangement, where we have the province, the federal government and the Metis Settlements General Council sitting at the same table.

Sometimes, the provinces and the territories—through the NRTA, when they were given authorities—are a bit leery of giving up some of these authorities. Our people are the same. You get used to doing things one way and change is scary.

We look at the Supreme Court decision of 2016 and we say that as settlements, we're very different from anywhere else when it comes to the Métis. It's really a specialized commitment to move us forward to attain the rights, and the funding and programs that should be available to us.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Atwin.

Go ahead, Mrs. Gill. You have six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses, Mr. Delorme, Vice‑Chief Derocher and Mr. Lehr, for their presentations.

I have questions for each of them.

I want to talk about housing. I know witnesses have highlighted how cost, community remoteness and isolation, and labour affect the problem. We talked about those factors with the ministers a week ago, and we were told that the increased costs of building housing in remote communities were finally being taken into account.

Since that isn't necessarily what I'm hearing across the board, I'd like to hear what each of you has to say. The reason I'm asking is simply so that we can make specific requests to the appropriate departments to address the issue and, of course, ensure you have access to housing that meets your needs.

Someone mentioned that you had $110,000, I believe, to build housing in certain communities. That would be impossible to do in my riding, so I imagine the same is true for you.

That is what I would like to hear more about.

[Vice-Chief Richard Derocher]

Who is that directed to?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

The question is for everyone.

You can go ahead, if you like.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Let's start with Mr. Derocher, and then we'll go to the other two.

[Vice-Chief Richard Derocher]

Absolutely, the northern factor is weighed into everything, from buying diapers and milk to housing.

As you know, my constituents go all the way up to La Loche, to the Clearwater River Dene Nation, which is 430 kilometres north of Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan. Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan, is the largest centre in our territory. It is approximately 330 kilometres from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, which is the centre of our province. That gives you an idea of where we are geographically.

It costs about 10% more to build homes in Meadow Lake than in Saskatoon. The further north you go it gets worse and worse, with up to 30% more in the Clearwater River Dene Nation, Birch Narrows Dene Nation or Buffalo River Dene Nation, which are our most northern communities. This includes English River, as well, which is the end of the road on the other side of our area.

You see how that affects our ability to build, because instead of spending $100 you're only spending $70. As I indicated, in Meadow Lake it costs about $215,000 or $220,000 to build an average home, a plain three-bedroom bungalow—so times that by 30%. As I also indicated the funding hasn't increased in over 30 years. La Loche has about 2,000 people so with a community of that size you're probably looking at a budget of about $330,000. One house will blow your budget, and you have no money for infrastructure or renovations.

That gives you an idea.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you.

That was a fairly thorough answer. You set the stage geographically, and you talked about the challenges you run into. Those challenges exist in my riding as well.

I'd like to delve a bit deeper.

You illustrated that the funding doesn't cut it. I had heard the opposite: that geographic distance and remoteness was being taken into account.

Would you agree that the funding should reflect all the challenges you run into? In particular, the funding should be equivalent to that allocated in more southern areas, where communities are connected by roads and where materials are available and cheaper?

As I said, the committee was told that those factors were already being taken into account, but perhaps it's being done in a very general way with only minimal regard for community distinctions. The situation seems to be more serious, from what I'm hearing today.

I'd like to know whether you agree. If I'm reading the situation wrong, feel free to correct me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Was the question for one witness, in particular?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Yes, of course.

The question was for Vice‑Chief Derocher, whom I was just speaking with. I'd like him to build on his previous answer, if he wouldn't mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

That's to you again, Mr. Derocher.

[Vice-Chief Richard Derocher]

In my tribal council we received $2.7 million—that's for all nine first nations. That breaks down to an average of about $300,000 per community, depending on the size of the community. That is $2.7 million, and we haven't received any increase in the last 10 years for the Meadow Lake Tribal Council's distribution of housing.

That shows you that I'm a bit puzzled by your comments on increases. There has not been any housing increase in the band budgets from the department in over 30 years. We had $2.7 million at that time; we're still getting $2.7 million at this time.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I'll just clarify what I meant, Vice‑Chief Derocher.

I wasn't saying that your budget had increased. I was referring to the fact that the committee had been told that all the funding was being adjusted to reflect the needs of first nations and the higher costs. Clearly, that isn't the case for you.

I just wanted to validate the information, and you've done that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have six minutes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank my honourable colleagues. I especially want to thank Shannon for making sure that we work co-operatively to address these serious issues. I also want to thank Michael, who's worked on this issue with Métis settlements in the past. I want to thank all of you folks—Jamie and Gary, I know we've briefed you as well on this issue—for making sure that we continue to work on what's really necessary for these communities.

I want to make a special mention here of something that's close to my heart. I'm from the Fishing Lake Metis Settlement. I'm from one of these communities. It's the honour of my life that I was raised in one of these communities, and that I have and enjoy the great rights and privileges that come along with being a Métis settlement member. But I'm also very proud to be representing Métis people elsewhere, here in this Parliament and of course in this committee as well.

I want to focus on how unique these communities truly are. It was mentioned previously how these communities are not the Métis National Council. They are not the Métis Nation of Alberta. They are very unique in that sense. The current framework of “distinctions-based policy”, which you might hear from the government bench all the time, doesn't exactly include these communities, but I also want to make a very special caveat and really ask my colleagues to pay special attention to how unique this is.

These communities are actually established by an act of the Alberta legislature. This creates a very specific nuance, but also the reason and impetus as to why the Supreme Court challenge in 2016 is so critical and important for the government to take seriously. A very similar case has come to our Supreme Court. In 1930 the Inuit came to the government asking for relief for their population. The government at that time said no, and it was simply because they did not satisfy, at that time, the government's definition of “Indians” as per section 91.24 of the Constitution Act. In 2016 the exact same case took place for Métis people.

However, we have this outstanding provincial legislation. This provincial legislation did make very special note. The legislature in Alberta, under a section 43 constitutional amendment, did include a provision to release these communities if the federal government were to take its responsibilities seriously and address these communities as truly indigenous and Métis. That work is outstanding from 1990. That's what the MOU and the framework mean to do—that is, make sure that we reduce the jurisdictional barriers that are currently wholly within the Alberta legislature.

I'd like to ask my good friend and president Herb Lehr to describe how his relationship with the provincial government is going in light of the fact that they have four pieces of that legislation. Members of the other communities mentioned funding being an issue. Métis settlements being wholly under provincial jurisdiction falls flat in the face of the provincial government. They need to truly look at their responsibility here and work collaboratively at a trilateral table.

President Lehr, can you describe how the relationship with the province has gone? Is it satisfactory to ensure that the communities' needs are met? Should the federal government intervene?

[Herb Lehr]

Currently, we have a long-term agreement with the provincial government that expires at the end of the next fiscal year. The amount that we should be eligible for is $5 million a year. Of that $5 million a year, zero is available to the settlements. A portion of the money goes to infrastructure. A portion of it goes to the RCMP for policing, which, as some of you may or may not know, just increased by $300,000 for us through their collective agreement.

[Technical difficulty—Editor], and in the end, of that $5 million, it's all spent. There is no money that I can send to each of the eight settlements to help them with their essential services or their governance at the community level. That is part of the problem we have right now.

There was a change in Alberta, put forward by the Government of Alberta, called Bill 57. It made changes to even the ability for us to get access to our own funds in what we call our Future Fund. We have approximately $20 million left in it. The legislation was changed to say that all eight communities must be in agreement to get access to that fund. Historically, we only needed six settlements in favour on a financial matter like that for an FAP. The provincial government changed it to eight.

So we are getting no money for housing from the province and very little infrastructure money from anybody to move forward with. We are getting no governance or essential services money from the province at this time.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you.

I'd like to spend this minute really focusing on this issue, Herb, which you might be able to elaborate on for us.

The reality is that since 1990 until today, the provincial government has had a tremendous influence, and almost exclusive jurisdiction over the Métis settlements.

In your opinion, as president, has that relationship been able to satisfy the needs of the Métis settlements?

Quickly, please.