Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 29th, 2024

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

I want to say that I also remember what Mr. Battiste just said. I'm in agreement with him.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Ms. Idlout.

My understanding from what was decided on Monday is that we agreed that we would have 30 minutes both with Minister Hajdu and with Minister Vandal. They would be separate, and then we could focus all of the questions on each individual minister. That's why we moved ahead as we did.

With that, Mr. Melillo, I would like to turn the floor over to you for a full first round of questions for six minutes.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.

Minister, it's good to see you back. I understand that you had to bail early on the last meeting to catch a flight. I won't dispute that, but it's good that you came back so that we could pick up where we left off.

Minister, I would like to ask you about the situation in Grassy Narrows First Nation, which of course you know full well.

Minister, your government has been in office now for nine years. It has been seven years since a mercury treatment centre was promised to the people of Grassy Narrows First Nation. We have seen no action since. On behalf of the people of Grassy Narrows and the folks across northwestern Ontario, simply, where have you been on this for the last seven years?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Indigenous Services]

Thank you very much, Mr. Melillo, for asking a question about Grassy Narrows.

I certainly hope that you'll ask a question in the House of Commons about the many first nations in your riding, because it is important that they have a voice and an advocate as a member of Parliament.

Have you met with Chief Turtle? Have you spoken with Chief Turtle?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

You know, Minister, you'll have plenty of time to ask questions as the opposition if you're able to keep your seat after the next election.

I have met with Chief Turtle. In fact, that was the first thing I did after I was elected. I've continued to keep that relationship going and I've been in contact with him very frequently.

You see, Mr. Chair, it was a direct question to the minister, and she's trying to deflect and distract immediately. It's nine years that they've been in power. Seven years ago, a mercury treatment centre was promised to the people of Grassy Narrows First Nation, and we've seen nothing since—nothing. In fact, this year, Chief Turtle was quoted in a CBC article, not a particularly Conservative media outlet, I would add. Chief Turtle said it best, “If they were acting urgently, it should have been done already.”

How long does it take, Minister?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you again, Mr. Melillo. The reason I asked the question is that, if you had spoken with Chief Turtle recently, you would know that he's extremely excited about getting started on the mercury treatment centre. We've worked really closely with the community on the many stages, from feasibility to engineering studies, to make sure it meets the needs of the community.

I look forward to continuing to support Grassy Narrows, unlike the previous Conservative government, who didn't speak with Mr. Turtle or other chiefs of Grassy Narrows for a decade so—

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Nine years you've been in power, Minister. It's been nine years.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

—we're looking forward to this work. We're looking forward to ensuring also that Grassy Narrows and the water that continues to poison the food supply of Grassy Narrows is protected.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

It's been nine years, Mr. Chair, and again, seven years ago, this treatment centre was promised. Now they're saying, “Okay, it's coming; it's just around the corner. There's excitement about it.”

We'll believe it when we see it, because we've been here before. Year after year, budget after budget, this government talks a good game. Then, when it comes time to put the money where their mouth is, they don't show up. They talk about the money they allocate. It's one thing to allocate funds. It's another thing to follow through.

We've seen the minister again immediately try to deflect and distract from the questions, so I'd like to ask her directly, does she take responsibility for this lack of action?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'm really excited that you're so excited about the health and wellness of the members of Grassy Narrows, because you have an opportunity to ensure that this kind of poisoning never happens again. You know that Bill C-61 is on the schedule to be debated again next week—

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

It's about time, Minister. You like to blame Conservatives for blocking it, but your party has not brought it forward.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

In fact, let me tell you—

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

You could have brought it forward months ago.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Let me tell you—

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Months ago, you could have—

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Let me tell you what indigenous people said about the Harper-era water legislation. In fact, they said that—

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

No.

Mr. Chair, this is my time. I'd like to ask another question.

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate—despite your lack of response—your being here nonetheless.

I'd like to ask about a different topic, Minister, since we're clearly not going to get anywhere on this.

Indigenous Services Canada has an MOU with the Indian Resource Council to comanage Indian Oil and Gas Canada. This organization is hoping to meet with you, Minister, to meet with your department to ensure that a new executive director can be appointed and put in place, and they've been unable to do so.

Minister, I'd like to offer you the opportunity to comment on why you have been ignoring these requests to meet on this very important position.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'll say that this organization is incredibly important to many indigenous first nations, many first nations. I'm going to turn to Keith Conn to speak about Indian Oil and Gas Canada.

[Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indigenous Services]

I'm Keith Conn, ADM of lands and economic development.

We're working closely with the Indian Resource Council. I was part of a selection board, and it was represented by the Indian Resource Council chiefs. They made a recommendation for the new CEO of Indian Oil and Gas, and the deputy minister has accepted the recommendation. We're just about to issue a letter of offer. It's in play as we speak, and he's supposed to be starting next week. It was well received by the Indian Resource Council.

Thank you for the question.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I don't know if I have enough time to get in another question and answer, so thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Melillo.

Next up we have Mr. Battiste for six minutes.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I'd like to follow up in the same line of questioning as my colleague Mr. Melillo. He's right. It is about time that we made the legislation necessary and the investments to ensure that indigenous people across this country have clean water.

In my province of Nova Scotia, we saw how industry dumped over and over again next to the Pictou Landing First Nation before the provincial government finally shut the plant down. A lot of times we've seen industry practise what I would have to call environmental racism, in that they were okay that they were basically poisoning a water supply for first nations, for Mi'kmaq. We've seen this happen in other places around this country, and that's why it's so terribly important that we have water legislation moving forward.

Hearing the passion from the Conservatives on first nations water just now, I know that they would be open, I'm sure, to unanimous consent to make sure that we get that water legislation to this committee so that we can get it passed during Indigenous History Month.

Minister, I'm wondering if you can tell me about what this water legislation is going to do for first nations in this country. Do you see the possibility for unanimous consent, possibly as early as next week, to ensure that we get this to this committee so that we can study it and pass it during Indigenous History Month?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you, MP Battiste. I want to thank you also for the many ways in which you've advocated for the passing of Bill C-61.

It makes sense when you talk about Pictou Landing. I had the huge privilege of meeting former chief Andrea Paul and hearing the story of Pictou Landing and the battle that community underwent to protect water for generations to come. I hope I'm not in any way appropriating culture, but, to use the phrase, I do raise up my hands to Chief Paul. I am inspired by her. In fact, I met her early on as we were on this journey. She was one of the voices who said that we had to move quickly and that we had to make sure there were no more situations like Pictou Landing—and there are. There are many situations.

Grassy Narrows is in the news again, sadly, as a result of ongoing mercury accumulation in fish and the ways in which it affects the people. There has been terrible leaking of tar sands in two Cree nations, Mikisew and Athabasca Cree nation. The Bloodvein and Dauphin first nations are facing terrible situations. Shoal Lake 40 has had contamination of water. These are ongoing crises in our communities across the country. Bill C-61 is a tool to ensure that first nations people have the rights and the tools to protect the water that feeds their water systems.

To answer your question directly, I would love to see all-party consent to move this bill to committee. Why? Because there are a number of important ideas to strengthen the bill, which are coming from first nations leaders themselves on how that bill can be stronger in its goal.

I do want to thank you, MP Idlout, for the many ways that you've been working on proposed amendments that could be considered by the government to reach the goal of protected water for generations to come.

My colleague MP Melillo was saying that it was about time we tabled the legislation. We know the obstructionist ways that this Conservative government has used to prevent legislation to move through the House. That is actually delaying good legislation that first nations people are calling for, and calling for to be implemented rapidly.

I thank you for your vision and for your leadership and for the idea. I leave it to my colleagues, because I can't answer that for each individual MP.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Minister, I'm going to continue to talk about water, because I know that it's important to first nations communities. I'm one of the only first nations MPs who live on a first nation reserve. It's something that we really need to move forward on. I'm wondering what's at stake if we don't move forward on Bill C-61.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

There is no legislation in place right now to protect water, in fact, because the litigation that first nations people pursued, and that we settled as a federal government to both compensate first nations for the lack of drinking water and protect water for generations to come, meant that, as part of that agreement, we agreed to repeal Harper-era legislation that was despised. In fact, before it passed the House, there were first nations leaders saying they wanted the legislation withdrawn, which later we repealed.

In fact, I can give you some quotes. Then Grand Chief Craig Makinaw of the Confederacy of Treaty 6 said, “The legislation is pushing our nations into the hands of the provinces and private corporations. This is a violation of the treaty.” Then Chief Robert Chamberlin, vice-president of the Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs, said, “the bill infringes upon constitutionally protected Aboriginal title rights and treaty rights, fails to recognize First Nation authority or jurisdiction and does not provide for accountability to First Nations, the very people the bill is supposed to help.” I could go on.

Right now there's an absence of legislation. As a result of the—