Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

It's the tripartite agreement the provinces signed with the feds. It should be an easy answer. It's 20 years.

I was at the table when that was negotiated in 2012. That's a 20-year agreement you're talking about.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Sorry, I was just told by the assistant deputy minister that it's five years plus five years, but I think we should.... I don't want to leave confusion at the table, but we're happy to come back to that exact agreement with you. I don't want to leave this—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

It went into effect in 2012 and expires in 2032.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I'm sorry. Maybe, Mr. Chair, if we're talking about the contract policing, I apologize. I thought you were talking about the contribution agreements with respect to first nations and Inuit policing. The contract policing—you're absolutely right—expires in 2032.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

That's a forty-eight-fifty-two split, which goes to cover indigenous people in a lot of provinces.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Again, I don't think that's accurate, but perhaps the—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You've referred to it a number of times here today already.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

That wasn't the contract policing that we signed with provincial governments to provide contract.... That's the first nations and Inuit policing program, which is separate from the contract policing program we have with—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Sorry, I'm going to go back. You and I have our policing through a 20-year agreement.

Of the indigenous self-administered policing contracts you're talking about, what percentage are one year?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Again, I can't imagine that this is deliberate, but there is certainly significant confusion, I think, at this end of the table in terms of the agreements with provinces and territories to provide contract policing services, like in the city of Moncton where I have a house—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Right. I'm moving on to the first nations that we talked about.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

—and then there's the first nations and Inuit policing program, which is the forty-eight-fifty-two cost sharing.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Yes, I got that. As you said, we're moving into the other one, the one that you've made with indigenous...when we're talking about self-administered.... What's the length of those contracts?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, with your indulgence, I think the assistant deputy minister might ensure that we all have a common basis of understanding with respect to these different contracts.

[Christine Moran]

Thank you, Minister.

There are two types of contracts under the first nations policing agreement. There is a framework agreement with each of the provinces that FNIPP operates in, and, under the framework agreement, there are community tripartite agreements. With respect to self-administered police services, of which we have 36, those are separate agreements with provinces, first nations and the federal government.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

How long are those contracts?

[Christine Moran]

Those contracts vary. They can be as long as 10 years, but it is at the discretion of the first nation, so some of them, in fact, are one year.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I agree. It's the same as I was asking before. I asked how many are at one year, how many are at five and how many are at 10. That's what I was looking for. We have the main one we're talking about, you and I. We have 20 years in that contract, but we have no 20-year agreements in those 38 agreements. Why?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

It's a very good question.

Perhaps, Mr. Chair, I'll ask the department to come back to you with the exact number of years for the individual agreements so that everybody has that information.

I think our colleague has identified exactly the challenge I tried to describe in my opening comments, because I think the point is absolutely valid.

In the contract policing that goes on year over year between the Province of New Brunswick and the Government of Canada, or a municipal police force such as the Toronto Police Service or the SPVM—pick your municipal police force—that is the essential element that is not fair to the indigenous policing communities, and that's exactly the issue we're trying to address. I think I share entirely our colleague's concern.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You have it. What I'm getting back from those indigenous leaders is that you won't give them the 20 years. They're telling me you won't go to 20 years. You're saying you're negotiating. That's their term. They're telling me you won't go there.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Again, there's a whole series of different contracts that—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I got that, but I'm getting push-back from indigenous chiefs saying that you won't go to 20 years like you and I have—you won't go there.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Well, that's exactly why we think it would be important to have the designation of essential services and the long-term funding, which might be a 10-year agreement renewable for 10 years—there's your 20 years. They would know their police services won't disappear, and they would be in perpetuity like in a municipality or our friends at the RCMP. I share that concern.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Good.

I have sat in phone conversations when the bureaucracy...with chiefs. They didn't know I was there. They're pushing hard. I'm hearing the bureaucrats say no. I hear that in phone conversations and in person. The bureaucrats don't know I'm there. The chiefs know I'm there, and that's why I'm there. Your guys are not going there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Shields.

Minister, if you could submit that information to the committee on those 36 agreements, I think that would be very helpful.

With that, we're moving on to our second questioner in this second round, Mr. McLeod, for five minutes.