Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Sept. 19th, 2024

[Clayton Leonard]

I think the chief wants me to answer that question.

I've already given a sense of the relationship between Alberta and first nations when it comes to water, so it's not a great starting point. I don't think it has to be that way, though. Water is important to everybody who lives in a watershed, so it can be a uniting factor instead of something that's dividing.

[Clayton Leonard]

I'll turn to Wilton.

[Dr. Wilton Littlechild]

Thank you very much.

If I may, I'll add a little bit to two or actually three questions by informing you that Ermineskin Cree Nation has its own constitution, which predates the Canadian Constitution. As a government, Ermineskin Cree Nation has jurisdiction over water and over whom they choose to work with.

To respond to the earlier question about private industry or private corporations and working together with us, that option as to whom we choose to work with in terms of water management, or any aspect of safe drinking water, rests in the Ermineskin Cree Nation. Through our constitution, we have a water act at Ermineskin, so we're exercising jurisdiction over water through our government in a treaty relationship nation to nation with the Crown.

Hopefully, that captures where we're coming from in a way that answers several of the questions that have been put forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

From that, we'll be moving to our second-to-last round of questioning with the Conservative Party.

Mr. Schmale, you have four minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much to our witnesses for this great conversation. It's good to see some familiar faces again.

I wouldn't mind picking up on this, Chief Mykat, if you could, and I know you mentioned a bit of it in your words earlier. Let's talk about the situation you were dealing with and what you were talking about.

If you had brought some water from your community and put it in front of us.... Tell us a bit about the challenges and how you got to that point where it's not even acceptable to bathe in the water that comes out of the tap.

[Chief Joel Mykat]

Well, I'm going to say that there's a number there again, but the way I see it, living there, in my reality, I'm going to say it's probably more than 80%. When I go out to visit, I look at people's water when it comes out of the tap. It has all sorts of colours: very dark, very dirty. Long story short, if you were in my home and I said, “Have a drink”, would you drink it? I'm sure you would pass.

For many years, I've heard discussions that our treaty was disrespected. One of the discussions that made me upset was saying that Canada and Alberta own the waters, but how could that be? I still don't believe that.

Again, as you know, our plant was made in the 1970s. Nothing was looked at. Our people are getting very sick with cancers and whatnot, with bad skin, and the list goes on. My only answer to this is that I welcome each and every one of you to come to my home fire and see that—and not just ours. You'll see that in many first nations.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

If I could, sir, just because I have only two minutes left, the treatment plant has been down for how long?

[Clayton Leonard]

I have those details for you.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

That's perfect. Yes, please.

[Clayton Leonard]

The problem that's been created at Ermineskin by Canada is first applying the LoSS standard, which looks at a very short horizon and the cheapest option for planning water infrastructure.

What engineers have identified, as recently as 2019, at Ermineskin is that there needs to be a new water treatment facility that is state of the art and provides piped water to every home in the community.

There's been a downward decline in the quality and quantity of groundwater since the 1970s, and it's something that ISC keeps throwing little band-aids at for the wells that service the community.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

That's what I want to talk about as well.

I think we all have companies in our...even my community has a couple that have great technology that can deliver clean drinking water. The issue seems to be at ISC, because they're not looking at the larger picture, which is a new plant. They're just looking at the cheap, quick fix, and then they move on.

[Clayton Leonard]

It's always easy to blame Indian Affairs, but Indian Affairs has political masters, and every party sitting around this table bears some responsibility. The Conservatives failed to address this issue when they were in power. There was a lot of—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I'm not trying to blame a party; I'm just trying to get to one of the causes of why this continues to happen.

[Clayton Leonard]

It's chronic underfunding and band-aid solutions.

Most communities, if you look elsewhere in Canada, plan drinking water infrastructure on a 30-year to 40-year planning horizon, and they make investments that are intended to last that long. Under the funding of first nation water systems, it's been two to five years and 80% of some fictional cost, instead of doing what's necessary in terms of infrastructure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you.

I'm sorry, Mr. Schmale; we're over time here.

With that, we'll be moving to our last round of questioning in the first panel.

Mr. Hanley, you have four minutes for questions.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

I'm pleased to ask my first few questions as a new member of this committee.

To your question, Chief, I also agree that access to clean drinking water is a fundamental human right.

I'm going to somewhat continue the line of questioning from Mr. Schmale, because I'm thinking, Mr. Leonard, of your earlier comments that it's all about implementation in the end, that the commitment is fulfilled when you see implementation.

Let's say that we look into the future, hopefully not too far into the future. You now have a modern, efficient, clean water system that all citizens have access to, just as you were saying, piped water available to all households. What are the enablers that will have enabled you to get there at the provincial level? Of course, our focus is more on the federal level. How will the right amendments in this legislation help you get to where you need to be?

[Clayton Leonard]

I think the amendment proposed by the Ermineskin, which recognizes a right to safe drinking water, is also tied to changes to other parts of the bill, and it would inform, in a much more meaningful way, what Canada's “best efforts” means. Canada's “best efforts” means that every person in the community has a right to turn on the tap and not have a risk to their health or well-being. That's what “best efforts” means. It doesn't mean that the last 30 years are good enough.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

We know that operation and maintenance of these systems can be difficult, and I think that's where there has been failure. Either the systems haven't been robust enough, or sometimes the systems have been so complicated that there's a lack of capacity to maintain them, at least in my experience from what I've heard about models.

My question would be whether a first nations-led national water authority would potentially be helpful to provide that leadership in operating and maintaining water systems, or do you see other national mechanisms that would be helpful, again thinking about the implementation and durability of good systems?

[Dr. Wilton Littlechild]

If this answers your question, there is a proposed national commission that I think would do what you're getting at, so that's one of the steps, yes, indigenous-led.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Could you tell me a bit more about that commission and what that commission proposes?

[Dr. Wilton Littlechild]

I think it's in the process of being established. When I last asked questions about it, the persons who would serve on the commission had not been identified, but it's a work in progress, I would say.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

I don't know if I have time for another question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

You have 30 seconds.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Ms. Keleutak, I know time is short.

When it comes to the right governance mechanism for you and Nunavik to have the water system that you need, can you reflect on the appropriate authority or governance mechanism that would help you?

[Harriet Keleutak]

I think if our ministry at the Quebec government, the minister responsible for our region.... They know what the problem is. They know how to fix it, but we have always been made to beg for essential services.

I don't know how to make it easy to understand. You're asking me who has the authority to make it happen. It's the Quebec government in my region that has the authority to make things happen, working with our regional government and our municipal services that have the authority to make things happen. When it comes to responsibility, our governments always seem to find legal jargon or a legal term to make sure that we wait and wait and wait to the point of becoming so desperate that we start acting in a weird way. Then we are defined or looked at as not normal people.