Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Sept. 19th, 2024

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Should the responsibility lie with the person who pollutes the resource, such as water, rather than with the person who wants to consume it?

You said that the oil sands were close to where you live. This can affect the quality of the water resource. Obviously, if this resource were contaminated or polluted, would the company also need to pay for the decontamination? Should the company have a legal responsibility in this area? Should this measure be included in the bill?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

If I could support anything in this bill, it would be that.

Thank you.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] the potential epigenetic consequences for first nations, and hence for health. In light of recent research on environmental factors and the lifestyles of indigenous communities, how should the government approach corporate and organizational responsibility for pollution, the use of dangerous chemicals and other practices likely to cause, for example, harmful epigenetic changes in indigenous individuals and their descendants?

Companies currently bear no responsibility. How can we ensure that companies take responsibility for the quality of the water that they use and discharge into the environment?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

By implementing what you just asked me and by being held accountable.... I truly believe that if people are responsible for causing these rates of cancer in my community, especially the rarest forms of cancer.... They say that with some of the cancers that are found in my community here, like the rare bile duct cancer, the chances of getting it are one in 100,000 people. In my community, there probably aren't even 1,000 people, and we have, I would say, about 10 cases of this rare form of cancer already.

People can say that it's just a coincidence and that it just happens. There's something here. I know that. As I said, I'm 47 years old. I lived off the land when I was younger. You were able to drink water from anywhere. You were in a canoe, a boat or anything and you would dip your cup into the water and drink it. Nowadays, you go onto the land and you take more water than you do gas. That tells you something. Not only that, but Health Canada made reference to eating the fish and to limiting it in your diet to once a month, and then, if the ladies were pregnant, to not eat it at all. Those are red flags.

Thank you.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I want to touch on one last matter, the First Nations Water Commission.

Do you believe that a commission tasked with considering the issues that may arise from Bill C‑61 needs to hear the concerns of first nations? Do you believe that first nations should play an integral role in this commission so that people representing this point of view are around the table?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

If the bill is passed, first nations should be on the commission, but again, the commission would just be a corporation. It would just be more corporatization of first nations. Again, if first nations are to be included, their concerns need to be heard. Again, that's if the bill is passed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

With that, we'll go to our last questioner in the second panel and for the day.

Ms. Idlout, you have six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for explaining a lot of the things that we had questions about. The federal government had policies, and they should have honoured the treaties that they agreed to and followed them.

Did you want to say something to the federal government? I understand that you do not want to see Bill C-61 passed. I want to hear from you any time as an indigenous person. You have a voice that is very important. I would like you to make your final statement so that we can fully understand your concerns, and it will help us also to understand it better.

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Thank you.

As a final statement, I can say this. People need to really take a good, hard look, if they are going to pass this bill, at the situation we are in, in regard to the other first nations across Canada. We are situated downstream from the oil sands. If the bill is passed and if there are amendments made to it, one thing I can say is this: I beg the province, I beg Canada and I beg all of you to please bring down the thresholds in regard to the different heavy metals that go into the water that comes down from the oil sands.

Right now, the thresholds are at 0.05 parts per million, and anything below that is acceptable. We know this for a fact. A lot of what's happening in this region is cumulative effects. Just recently, we were lobbying the government to start to test for naphthenic acids. We were successful in that, and now it is, but, again, the threshold is 0.05 parts per million. It's a hard thing that I have to beg for my people to have a fighting chance.

I'm going to say this today. There was a study done by Transport Canada in 2017 of the wharf area, also known as “big dock”. The study goes back to 2014 or 2013 in regard to that being a contaminated site. The government had this information, and it did not disclose it to my people. It was only brought to light to us about two months ago. I've had kids swimming in there, and now you guys want to off-load the responsibility to us. A lot of my people live in that area. This is very concerning, and this is going to be news. This is what I'm saying.

This is the reason why we are in total opposition to Bill C-61. It's because we give one inch on anything, and you take the land. Now we're finding out something seven years later, after the fact. Do you see why we are so resistant and hesitant for any bills that come in this area? Even if it works for the rest of Canada, it does not work for us in this area.

I'm saying this as the chief of Mikisew Cree First Nation. Please reconsider this, because you guys have to understand where we're situated. It's not only us; it's the other nations who live in the community, but we are a majority in this community.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

That concludes the time for questioning in the second panel.

I want to sincerely thank Chief Tuccaro for joining our committee today and for his testimony. It will be invaluable in the work this committee is doing as part of the study of this legislation, and we really appreciate your taking the time to share everything with us today.

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Thank you all, and I appreciate you taking the time to listen to me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

With that, we will finish our second panel here.

Being conscious of the time, we won't go into committee business today. We'll have some time on Monday to do so and to go through the work plan in more detail. We have witnesses who have already been submitted. We will continue to work through those. We can work through the rest of the work plan at that time, as we have some time in the schedule.

With that, is it the will of the committee to adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

The meeting is adjourned.