Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 123 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

I want to start, as we always do, by recognizing that we are gathered on the ancestral and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people, and express gratitude that we're able to do the important work of this committee on lands they have stewarded since time immemorial.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, June 5, 2024, the committee is resuming consideration of Bill C-61, an act respecting water, source water, drinking water, wastewater and related infrastructure on first nation lands.

I would like to welcome the witnesses for our first panel.

From the Assembly of First Nations, we have National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak. Alongside her are Christopher Rapson, legal counsel, and Irving Leblanc, former director of infrastructure and safe drinking water.

From the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, we have Chief Betsy Kennedy, acting grand chief. She is joining us by video conference. From Cold Lake First Nations, we have Chief Kelsey Jacko. From the Kehewin Cree Nation, we have Chief Trevor John.

Welcome, everybody. You will each have five minutes for your opening statements, after which we will proceed with the rounds of questions.

With that, we will start with National Chief Cindy Woodhouse.

[National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak, Assembly of First Nations]

Mr. Chair, this is something a little different. Because this is my first committee appearance as national chief, I'm going to ask for a couple of extra minutes of your time.

I know the Creator gives us life today—all of us—so we can live and breathe. He is the one who provides us with clean drinking water and clean source water.

I know Chief Kennedy is on the line. Could I please ask Chief Kennedy to start us off in a good way and pray for this day and for all of us and our families? Thanksgiving is coming, and I'd like to ask her for that. I know this is an important issue, but I ask for your time as we stand and thank somebody above us who helped us be here today.

[Chief Betsy Kennedy, Acting Grand Chief, Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs]

Good morning.

Thank you, National Chief.

Thank you for this day, as it is very nice. Thank you to our Creator, who is here to bring us together in order to save our communities. We are here to protect the lands where we live and continue to. With the help of our Creator, we can, ourselves, help to preserve them and continue to do all we can on Turtle Island. We ask you to protect and guide us in what we need to do for our children and our future.

I say that. Amen.

[National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak]

It's so nice to see each and every one of you.

For those of you who don't know me, I grew up on a small first nation in Manitoba about a two-and-a-half-hour drive from Winnipeg. I want to thank Chief Kennedy for playing an important role during this transition time back at home. We haven't met; we're meeting for the first time today, so I thank you for all your work.

Before we go on, though, I also want to acknowledge a colleague of mine who has since passed. I want to acknowledge Grand Chief Merrick, and I also want to thank the chiefs here for joining me and thank colleagues and my staff from the Assembly of First Nations.

I am the national chief for the Assembly of First Nations, and I've been so for the last 10 months. I look forward to working with all of you for the full three years ahead.

I want to acknowledge that we are gathered here on the traditional unceded, unsurrendered territory of the Algonquin people. I would also like to thank the committee for inviting me to speak on Bill C-61 on behalf of the Assembly of First Nations.

The Assembly of First Nations has long advocated funding and resources to address the water crises affecting first nations. Historically, the federal government has failed first nations by chronically underfunding drinking water and wastewater service as well as implementing programs that have ignored first nations' rights and autonomy.

On June 5, the city of Calgary experienced a water main break, leading to a boil water advisory and conservation measures that dominated national headlines. This is in stark contrast with the media coverage of first nations' drinking water issues that have existed for decades. Compared to other Canadians, first nations living on reserve are 90 times more likely to lack access to running water.

For the past three decades, there have consistently been at least 100 long-term and short-term advisories in first nations, with 30 long-term advisories still in effect. First nations do not receive the same level of water and wastewater services as the general Canadian population.

Bill C-61 presents a significant opportunity to address this long-standing injustice. The Assembly of First Nations is confident that the proposed legislation before this committee addresses one of our most critical priorities: ensuring safe and clean drinking water and adequate wastewater services for first nation citizens. It is designed to address the long-standing water crises in first nations communities across Canada and ensure meaningful change.

The Assembly of First Nations has worked diligently to ensure that the legislation contains the necessary minimum requirements as articulated by first nations. Royal assent to Bill C-61 is a critical opportunity to address the issue and ensure that first nations have access to adequate drinking water and wastewater services and to programs that respect their needs, rights and self-determination.

Bill C-61 was jointly discussed and developed between Indigenous Services Canada and the Assembly of First Nations, and I commend people like Joanne Wilkinson, Phil Fontaine and Chief Linda Debassige, who, a few Christmases ago—over Christmas, everybody was resting—were there getting down to the work of this, so I lift them up in a good way. We also have Irving Leblanc beside me. I thank you for your hard work and dedication to our people for many, many years.

It marks a significant step forward in the recognition of the inherent rights of first nations and their jurisdiction over critical matters.

The current version of the proposed legislation has significant improvements to previous versions, and it reflects progress in addressing the critical components that were identified by the Assembly of First Nations during engagements held from 2019 to 2023.

The proposed legislation provides recognition of first nations' inherent right to self-government over source water. The Assembly of First Nations consistently advocated for the inclusion of source water protection that recognizes first nations' inherent right to self-government over drinking water, wastewater and associated infrastructure.

We understand that a source-to-tap protection is the safest, most efficient, effective, accepted and cost-effective approach to manage drinking water over the long term.

The proposed legislation has made efforts to address long-standing funding issues. Currently, funding to support the provision of water and wastewater services is determined through a fully discretionary approach by the minister.

Although we understand that including statutory funding transfers under the legislation would have provided assurances to first nations, the proposed legislation commits to developing a funding mechanism, in collaboration with first nations, for direct and long-term funding.

Under this legislation, the minister must consult and co-operate with first nations to develop a funding framework that provides adequate funding and meets the actual cost needs of first nations and ensures comparability with non-indigenous communities. Strong wording will continue to protect first nations and ensure they receive the necessary funding they require for years to come.

The proposed legislation includes important sections on standards. First nations are entitled to water quality, water quantity and wastewater effluent standards that meet or exceed the highest standards of other relevant Canadian jurisdictions to address the current federal regulatory void.

Based on engagements held from 2019 to 2023, the proposed legislation now specifies the standards applicable for water quality, water quantity and wastewater effluent for both public and private systems, based on an assessment of all existing and potential future needs.

It must protect and provide opportunities for first nations to develop their own standards and address all of their water needs, from domestic and institutional to commercial and industrial demands that help first nations grow.

This is an important inclusion of first nations' governance resources and support in the proposed legislation. This includes a commitment to establishing a first nations water commission to support the purpose and principles of the legislation.

Under the legislation, the minister will consult and co-operate with first nations on the development of terms of reference, a defined period for co-development and a commitment to funding. It enables the creation of first nations governance institutions, which must be led by first nations in their own ways and at their own pace.

There is an important mechanism for transboundary agreement making. Although the Assembly of First Nations did not co-develop the language for the sections related to the protection zones, as a result of its advocacy, the proposed legislation includes a provision for transboundary source water agreements, ensuring first nations are involved in all agreements that affect them.

Protecting source water that is often located off-reserve is critical. These areas are within the traditional and ancestral territories of first nations where provinces and territories have extensive jurisdiction. Addressing on-reserve waters alone is insufficient; source waters that provide drinking water for first nations must also be protected.

A key concern raised by first nations is immunity and liability. The proposed legislation states that no employee or person hired by a first nation can be held liable if they acted in good faith in their duties in the provision of water and wastewater services. A first nation may still be held liable, and it's important to recognize that sufficient funding goes hand-in-hand with accepting liability. No first nation is prepared to accept liability for an underfunded system.

The Assembly of First Nations is committed to defending against amendments that would diminish or otherwise weaken the proposed legislation. We must ensure that this legislation is as strong as it can be, and to that end, we are advancing amendments to improve the bill in the following ways: protection zones; standards, such as the requirement that the quantity of water would meet all needs, including agriculture, fire protection, industrial, commercial, etc.; the funding framework; the first nations water commission; liability, immunity and indemnification; and, finally, references to best efforts.

Details of these amendments are contained in our written submission, which has been provided to this committee.

Currently, without legislation in place, there are no enforceable standards or regulations, no recognition of rights to govern water and wastewater on first nations' land and no sustainable long-term funding mechanism. Comprehensive legislation compliant with UNDRIP will further Canada's commitment to reconciliation. The urgency of this issue has been stated for decades; now is the time to act.

In closing, Canada recognizes the human right to drinking water and sanitation and has obligations to all first nations. This is an important moment for Canada and for first nations. We look forward, and we look to you for your support in moving this forward in a good way.

I just want to say chi-meegwetch for this very important matter. Thank you for your time on this.

It's an important moment for all of us.

Meegwetch for welcoming me here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, National Chief.

Next, in the opening statements, we will turn the floor over to Acting Grand Chief Betsy Kennedy from the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs.

Chief, you have five minutes or less for your opening remarks.

[Chief Betsy Kennedy]

Good morning.

I want to thank the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs for the opportunity to speak with you today on Bill C-61.

I am the chief of War Lake First Nation and appear before you as the acting grand chief of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs.

I would like to begin my remarks by explaining the significance of the water crisis for our first nations in Manitoba.

As we all know, lack of access to drinking water has devastating effects on our health. Some, however, may be less familiar with the host of adverse effects it has on well-being. Many of our children living in these first nations without proper drinking water are very sick. They develop conditions for which they have to seek help every day of their lives. Sometimes it goes on until they become adults. This is very stressful for families. They don't know who to turn to, sometimes. I have seen it. My own family is going through the same thing—first nations having boil water advisories.

I also want to state that we support Shamattawa in their concerns over drinking water. We should have access to the same drinking water as everyone else does across Canada. We have a legal right to be there, to have access to clean drinking water and to have water in every first nation across Canada.

Important teachings and knowledge that should have been passed down over generations have been disrupted. These losses have created a disconnect between first nations and the land, a relationship that is fundamental to our world view. The resulting impacts on well-being, spirituality and concepts of identity cannot be overstated.

On the foundation of this knowledge, I want to express concerns about how this bill impacts first nations' right to self-determination.

The bill follows a framework similar to existing Canadian laws, which limit the recognition of first nations' inherent right to self-government through the legislative approach. In short, Parliament is telling first nations how to enact laws in their inherent jurisdictions, subordinating first nations governments and undermining the nation-to-nation relationship. The AMC rejects the notion that first nations' jurisdiction and lawmaking authority is contingent on federal legislation. One nation cannot control or validate another in a true nation-to-nation relationship. It requires equal recognition of the laws and authority of each other.

Also concerning is the fact that the bill only recognizes first nations' jurisdiction on first nations land, as if water is stagnant and does not flow from one jurisdiction to another. I want to emphasize what the national chief said about water running and flowing in many directions. It's not just first nations' water that we utilize; we also live off reserve. The spring waters are in areas we also want to protect.

As a result, there is no recognition of first nations jurisdiction on much of the treaty and ancestral territories of first nations in Manitoba.

Overall, the proposed act fails to fully recognize first nations jurisdiction and conveys lack of respect for our laws. It only recognizes first nations authority over water resources within the confines of first nations land, despite the fact that the water knows no boundaries.

When we see buildings or roads being built, the builders don't meet with the first nations. We know where these waters are—the wells that have been there for a long time. They're just being bulldozed. Those are the waters that we would like to protect. Those are the waters that are clean. Some of these waters are not just for drinking; there are minerals in there that help in the way of medicine.

In order for us to protect the water, we would like to include in Bill C-61 water protection. It's not just within our communities on reserve that we're protecting the water, but it's also the waters that run outside. The water is all over, and we would like to protect that.

There are a lot of industries in operation. That's the reason many of us are going through these issues with health. The issues of health really undermine what we try to do to protect our children and grandchildren from some of these diseases. That needs attention.

The doctors do—

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Chief, I'm very sorry that I need to do this. We are running over time for opening remarks.

There is going to be time once we get into the rounds of questioning. If you're able to hold that thought, you can get back to it then.

[Chief Betsy Kennedy]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm sorry that I need to do this.

We will turn it over next to Chief Kelsey Jacko from Cold Lake First Nations for five minutes or less for an opening statement.

[Chief Kelsey Jacko, Cold Lake First Nations]

Good morning.

I am Chief Kelsey Jacko of Cold Lake First Nations. Thank you for taking the time to listen today.

Thank you to Chief Cindy Woodhouse for helping to make this happen.

You have our written technical statements, but today I want to speak from the heart. I want to acknowledge that we meet today on the lands of the Algonquin people who have been, and still are, caring stewards of the land.

In my culture, as with all peoples who are connected to the land, water is life. Before we're even born, we are in water inside our mother's womb. Lue Chok Tue and Ha Tue have been the womb my relations have centred their lives around from time immemorial. The people moved within the seasons—to Ha Tue for trapping and winter camp and to Lue Chok Tue for the summer months. Our treaty practices depend on these waters. In treaty, the phrase “as long as the river flows” is about my people's ability to continue living and bringing forward new generations. It's also life for our fish, animals, birds and bugs.

We understand your objective with the water legislation and we agree that source water protection is key. The issue is that the legislation provides no real tools. It is more of a suggestion than legislation.

My nation is fortunate to have much lower industry and agricultural allocations than the volumes impacting most nations. Still, as the indigenous population grows, we will be last in line for water, even though we've been here long before Europeans could even find this continent. Unless something changes, our concerns will always be last in line when it comes to water.

The historical unwillingness of Canada to fund on-reserve water infrastructure has put most nations in the position of being last in line under Alberta's First-in-Time, First-in-Right legislation. Other provinces have similar legislation, and until our inherent rights are recognized within the legislation frameworks, our communities are at risk.

In Alberta, we have a lot of problems with water, as our growing population demands more and the lands get drier. Will the North Saskatchewan one day be like the Colorado and not reach the sea? Will our industries and cities collapse with our environment? The Bennett dam destroyed the livelihood of our Dene cousins in Fort Chipewyan.

In Treaty 7 territories, only 7% of the resources are allocated to fish, wildlife and general habitat management. In-stream requirements, the ones that sustain the critical habitats, are not well understood. To be clear, we do not know if the amount of water currently being left is enough for fish. We certainly don't know the appropriate amounts for wetlands and the aquifers that support them—and by “we”, I mean humanity.

Today we have provinces, regulators and industry working to release oil sands water into the river or releasing it by accident—and they're lying about it, as with Kearl. We know that Canada is working with industry on slow release, but this isn't the way. They said that they could clean it, and they should. Instead, they hold it hostage.

In my area, we see water lines being built to suck large volumes of water out of our lake for industrial and domestic use. This year, the lake was so low that the water withdrawals had to be suspended, and the place where our kids learned to kayak and canoe had 50 metres more beach. This means that industry just switches to groundwater. However, these aquifers have fallen as much as 30 metres because of oil sands' use.

The AER, the Alberta Energy Regulator, lets companies pollute shallow groundwater so long as they stay on lease. These companies can just leave, but my people will be here forever, bringing forward new generations.

The watersheds we depend on flow right through the Cold Lake air weapons range, draining from Alberta and Saskatchewan. We will have to deal with three governments. I will say that the DND and Saskatchewan have both been supportive of efforts to expand protection of the land base, and Parks Canada is working with us on creating an ecological corridor that will protect the largest river flowing into our lake, but generally, we know that climate change is going to bring more low-water years. No one seems interested in the kind of monitoring and management required for sustainability.

We acknowledge that the legislation is a sincere attempt to move forward on a complicated issue. We need to see it provide more actionable solutions, tools that we can use. At the regulatory level, the majority of the considerations around the water are for use. Consideration for the environmental impacts of lowered water tables and in-stream availability come dead last. This is not a way to uphold treaty.

CLFN belongs to a regional utility board that is a partnership between my nation and our immediate neighbours. Many of these neighbours draw their water from Cold Lake. We are doing our best to work together to manage local resources.

However, Alberta won't even share the key performance indicators it uses to ensure that water allocations are sustainable. The Alberta government has demonstrated that it is unwilling to enforce water rationing on industry, even in times of crisis. What makes Canada think they will work with us on prevention?

Industry oversight is mostly reliant on self-reported statistics. As we have seen recently with methane release, these numbers are unfortunately rarely reliable. Because of the importance of the land and our treaty rights to all treaty peoples, putting source water protection into the hands of the nations will help to address the principal/agent problem that most governments face.

My understanding of the intent of this bill is that its purpose is to give nations clear tools with which to uphold their inherent rights to water. However, the current version of the bill contains no material recognition of these rights. Instead, it reads like a joint venture option.

You have to understand that nations never gave up their right to care for the water. This is what we mean by inherent rights. The concept of owning water at the time of treaty was like saying you owned the stars: It is an outrageous impossibility. Canadian law already recognizes this concept. You sell the right to access, move, use and pollute, but not the water itself.

If you are serious about protecting source water and acknowledging the inherent rights and responsibility of first nations as protectors, I ask that you consider what the bill offers on the ground for our technicians, particularly for those nations that are being asked to partner with unwilling provincial governments or that will be forced into a four-way partnership, as CLFN would.

If your goal is to be good treaty partners rather than asking the province to co-operate, you need to recognize the interjurisdictional nature of this resource and employ the jurisdiction space available to you in this bill.

Mahsi cho. Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Chief Kelsey Jacko.

We will move to our fourth and final opening statement, which comes from Chief Trevor John.

You have five minutes or less.

[Chief Trevor John, Kehewin Cree Nation]

Thank you.

First and foremost, I'd like to thank the Creator for blessing us all with a beautiful day and this time together.

I would like to thank our national chief, Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak, for helping us get this time together with all you folks.

I'd like to thank the elder for blessing us with a prayer this morning. It's always good to start out with a prayer in our culture, so hay hay to Elder Betsy.

For those of you who don't know me, my name is Chief Trevor John. I'm from Kehewin Cree Nation, Treaty No. 6, Alberta region.

Tansi, boozhoo and hello.

Kehewin Cree Nation, like many of our neighbouring Cree tribes, sits near a water source. This is no mistake. Our ancestors, at treaty time and along with the dominion of Canada officials, marked out spaces that the Indian Act calls reserves, where our people would have access to the basic human right of safe drinking water. The treaties themselves are referred to as lasting in perpetuity for as long as the sun shines, the grass grows and, yes, the waters flow.

Canada has a lasting obligation under this relationship created by treaty to ensure that treaty first nations are supported as far as water and related infrastructure are concerned. This bill intends to abandon all of this in favour of section 35 rights of self-determination. This is wrong, shameful and unethical, yet here we are in 2024 with exactly that.

It must be said that the preamble of Bill C-61 has good-sounding words and all the right language about reconciliation and recognition. It sounds good on the surface for sure, but it doesn't bind Canada or Alberta to ensuring that the legislation does what the intent of the preamble is—that is, to ensure safe and viable water and water infrastructure beyond best efforts.

If this bill goes forward, we feel it will not be linked to treaty-based implementation, planning objectives or milestones. Bill C-61 looks like lip service to a nice future but does not meet the reality we have with the Province of Alberta. This bill does not guarantee or bind Alberta, and based on our extensive experience with Alberta, there is no current recognition or relationship that enables us to be sure that our peoples will have sustainable infrastructure.

The title of Bill C-61 is “An act respecting water, source water, drinking water, wastewater and related infrastructure on First Nation lands”.

Inside the bill it says, “on, in and under the First Nation lands”, and jurisdiction under treaty means the whole of the treaty territory. For many of our nations, that goes well beyond provincial lines whereby our reserves are designated. This is what needs reconciliation if the bill is to mean anything.

Canada, under its declaration action plan, states a commitment to “honourably implement historic and modern treaties” consistent with article 37 of the United Nations declaration. Bill C-61, in Canada's processes to discuss it, needs to work on it through this.

As a chief of my nation, this is not honourable with regard to the UN declaration commitment, and this bill, like those that came before it, will fail us.

Bill C-61 provides treaty first nations with no assurance for improving water health and meeting current or growing water infrastructure needs. It contains significant loopholes for Canada to delay implementation and decisions on commitments to providing funding for addressing long-standing needs. It does not contemplate binding obligations to ensure adequate or consistent resourcing for needs or how those real needs could change over time, considering climate change and other related impacts.

The bill says Canada will use “best efforts to ensure...access to clean and safe drinking water” on reserves, but this is not binding. With no clear implementation plan that considers actual and full costs according to those needs, we are setting the stage for new challenges for the next generations. This is not acceptable.

Canada often talks about a whole-of-government approach in relation to reconciliation. On water, the potential of this is something that could be supported with a treaty bilateral approach, but instead, Canada, this summer, through an order in council, gave permission to the Alberta, the Saskatchewan and the Manitoba provincial governments to reapportion water for their purposes, without a single interaction with our governments. This is not a good start for us to feel any assurance that “best efforts” language will help us and that our needs for water and related infrastructure will be prioritized.

Since 2019, Canada has indicated that it would be gradually transferring all programs and services to willing first nations. It is using comparability standards that are provincial standards in the implementation of the transfer of responsibility and calling that “self-determination”. It seems to us, as treaty leaders, that Canada, through ISC, is trying to leave its legal obligation because it knows what we know, because we have told them: The infrastructure gap in our nations is much larger than what AFN has told them.

Today, I'm asking on behalf of my peoples for Canada to get real and work with us to address the actual needs it's responsible for under treaty. As we have told the ministers, “treaty” means good faith dealing to adjust to the actual water and infrastructure needs of the nations and to ensure Bill C-61 is amended to address those needs as promised under the treaty relationship.

Hay hay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Chief.

With that, we are going to go into our first round of questions. I am going to be reducing it a bit because I do want to get a chance to go through two rounds. We'll go for five minutes each for the first round here.

We will be starting with the Conservative Party.

Mr. Melillo, you have five minutes.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of the individuals for joining us to talk about this important legislation.

I want to start by also offering my condolences to Chief Kennedy on the passing of Grand Chief Merrick. I know it came as a shock for many people right across the country, including me. I was actually planning to meet with her just around that time, so it came as quite a shock.

I want to thank you for your work here in the interim and for being here to ensure that the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs does have a voice during this important discussion.

I'll start with you, if I can, Chief Kennedy.

I'm curious if you can describe the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs' involvement during the consultation process in the development of this bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Chief Kennedy, you'll have to move your microphone down so that we can hear you.

Thank you.

[Chief Betsy Kennedy]

Thank you.

AMC developed a proposed draft of a first nations water strategy in 2013 through a process that enabled first nations in Manitoba to come together and express their views and to share their knowledge. This draft outlines key issues and actions related to water rights, access, protection and management that could be built upon the context of Bill C-61.

Thank you.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

I want to ask National Chief Woodhouse a question.

We've heard from officials at ISC and witnesses here at the committee that the government has incorporated direct feedback from first nations in the development of this bill. Can you give any examples of direct feedback from AFN that has been incorporated into Bill C-61?

[National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak]

I'm going to have to ask my staff for that, please, because they went through the notes thoroughly.

[Christopher Rapson, Legal Counsel, Assembly of First Nations]

Thank you. Good morning to the committee.

One of the key examples of direct feedback from the AFN and from first nations that has been incorporated by the government in the draft bill is the protection of source water. I think that is really the key example. That's done through a number of mechanisms, but that's really the key change from earlier drafts that reflected input from first nations and from the Assembly of First Nations.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I appreciate that as well. Thank you.

I do want to come back to the national chief or whoever will be answering.

You did mention some amendments, and there is one around protection zones as well. I know that there is a brief, but for the committee and for those who may be watching, would you be able to describe in more detail what the amendment coming from AFN around protection zones will be?

[Irving Leblanc, Former Director, Infrastructure and Safe Drinking Water, Assembly of First Nations]

I'm sorry. I couldn't quite pick that up, Mr. Melillo.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

The national chief alluded to an amendment pertaining to protection zones. I'm wondering if you could speak to that proposed amendment.

[Irving Leblanc]

Unfortunately, I had already left the AFN when those amendments were made. I'm going to refer to my colleague here on those amendments.

[Christopher Rapson]

Thank you for the question.

This is one of the key amendments that the AFN is putting forward with respect to the bill.

Looking at protection zones, the draft as it stands only partially recognizes “first nation” and affirms first nation jurisdiction over source water off reserve. In fact, it makes that recognition and affirmation contingent on first nations reaching agreements with provincial, federal and territorial governments.

Now, as you've heard from other witnesses, that jurisdiction—the inherent jurisdiction of first nations to protect their source waters—is not contingent on federal legislation, either in this bill or any other legislation. It's not contingent on those first nations reaching agreement.

The amendments that we're putting forward are to fully recognize that jurisdiction. One mechanism that we're putting forward for doing that is looking at a mechanism that's already been tested and endorsed by the Supreme Court of Canada. That is the mechanism in what's referred to as Bill C-92, an act respecting first nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families.

That mechanism, we think, would do justice to the first nations with respect to the recognition and affirmation of their inherent jurisdiction over source waters and protecting those source waters.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Melillo.

We'll next move to our second questioner here.

Mr. Carr, you have five minutes.