Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 18th, 2024

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

BQ-7 was not moved, and I had the same issue with the two of them. I'm just wondering if we have the ability to legislate over provincial jurisdiction, including the dispute resolution mechanisms, because that's what this is speaking to. I feel that this perhaps wouldn't be infringing on constitutional rights, but I'd like to know what the experts could say.

[Nelson Barbosa]

I would agree that this would potentially infringe on provincial and territorial jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Atwin.

Go ahead, Ms. Idlout.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

I just want to remind you that this will have an impact on the...because first nations or indigenous people were able to run their own governance, but when Canada came to be, they were stripped of this. They want to see regulations put in place for dispute resolution mechanisms. I just want to remind you that this has been requested. I urge you to pass this.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Ms. Idlout.

Next is Mr. Melillo.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate that intervention from Ms. Idlout. I do share the same concerns mentioned by Mrs. Atwin about this, though, and I'll just take it a step further.

You mentioned, I believe, Mr. Barbosa, that this would overstep into provincial jurisdiction. Could you expand on the difficulty in enforcing this clause given that reality?

[Nelson Barbosa]

I think one is that the establishment of a dispute resolution commission comes with, eventually, finality. That finality can end up in court as an ultimate objective of how you resolve disputes. The resolution in courts where it could impinge or infringe on provincial or territorial jurisdictions could have significant consequences and run potentially counter to the jurisdictional makeup of present-day Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Melillo.

(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1)

(On clause 19)

I'll open the floor to Ms. Idlout to move NDP-30.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

I move NDP-30. It was given to us by the Assembly of First Nations. It reads:

recommendation and in collaboration with First Nations, make regulations respecting water ser-

It's to add a collaboration piece.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Ms. Idlout.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)

I'll give the floor back to Ms. Idlout to move NDP-31.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Chair.

Regarding NDP-31, it was given to us by the File Hills tribunal council to amend clause 19 with the following:

water and ground water protection plans and the maintenance and

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

I'll open it up for debate.

I see that Mrs. Atwin has her hand up.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I'd like to challenge a notion that Mr. Morrice brought to our committee, that if in fact a motion is moved and accepted, it's within scope necessarily.

I'm wondering where the piece around groundwater specifically could extend beyond first nation lands where we are dealing with on reserve, outside of the source protection agreements which would be forthcoming. I'm wondering about the implications of including the groundwater piece specifically and whether it is within the scope of the bill.

[Rebecca Blake]

I appreciate the question. I think it was for us.

In terms of clause 19, it's specific to “on First Nation lands”. With protection plans and water flowing, that would be broader than “on First Nation lands”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Atwin.

Mr. Melillo is next.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also want to clarify groundwater versus source water. There must be some similarities, but I imagine the definitions will not be completely identical. Perhaps that could be explained a bit further.

[Nelson Barbosa]

Thanks for the question.

Sources of water can be water where—I'm trying to find it without the word—sources of water where drinking water is obtained. These can be aquifers or groundwater. Sometimes it's lakes. It varies considerably. Sometimes it actually refers to the source or the genesis of where water comes from. Groundwater is anything under the ground. It's inclusive of that term but not solely source water.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

If I understood the previous answer correctly, should this amendment pass, it would specifically apply to groundwater within a first nation. Is that correct?

[Rebecca Blake]

Under clause 19, yes, it is specific to “on First Nation lands”.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Okay. That's good.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Melillo.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

NDP-31 is defeated.

We will now move on to amendment BQ‑8.

If BQ-8 is moved, then NDP-32 cannot be moved, as they are identical.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor on amendment BQ‑8.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is one of the great amendments to this bill, which currently has major flaws. It's about how the government must consult with first nations to determine what regulations it can introduce to strengthen resources allocated to the operation of drinking water and waste water facilities.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I'm not hearing the translation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

We'll take a quick break here to make sure the translation is coming through.

I'm told that the problem has now been resolved.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, I was saying that this is an important issue and that this amendment is probably one of the most important ones.

How can we improve the recruitment, training, certification and retention of operators, particularly in indigenous communities?

It says that the government must consult with first nations on this to determine what regulations it can introduce to strengthen resources allocated to the operation of drinking water and waste water facilities.

This week, I spoke with people from AtkinsRéalis, formerly SNC-Lavalin, which operates the drinking water treatment plant in Chisasibi. They've raised this issue before. They want to do business with indigenous communities and strengthen autonomy, but, at the same time, training is not necessarily adequate, unfortunately. The fact that communities don't have the means to provide these employment and stability opportunities to first nations people in their territory is a major problem.

We think the federal government has a responsibility in this regard, and I think it's essential to focus on the recruitment, training, certification and retention of indigenous people.