Evidence of meeting #132 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rebecca Blake  Acting Director, Legislation, Engagement and Regulations, Department of Indigenous Services
Douglas Fairbairn  Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs and Department of Indigenous Services, Department of Justice
Nelson Barbosa  Director General, Community Infrastructure Branch, Department of Indigenous Services

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Colleagues, I'm going to call this meeting to order.

Good morning. Welcome to meeting number 132 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

As always, I want to start by acknowledging that we are gathered on the ancestral and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people and by expressing gratitude that we're able to do the important work of this committee on lands they've stewarded since time immemorial.

Colleagues, we have a lot of work to do, given the House order that was passed on Tuesday. The second report of our committee was recommitted to our committee with a view to studying the economic and antireconciliatory barriers posed by fraudulent bids and applications for procurement opportunities set aside for indigenous businesses, including those from non-indigenous-owned companies.

We are ordered to order certain ministers, officials and private citizens to appear, while we will also have at least four meetings to invite witnesses to provide testimony to this committee for that purpose. This is all before we break for holidays on December 17, which is less than a month away.

Accordingly, I want all parties to submit their witness lists to the clerk by noon on Friday, November 29, for at least the four meetings we will be having on this topic.

However, as this order appropriately confirms, the first priority of this committee is going to be passing Bill C-61.

You may ask how we are going to do all of this in less than a month. The order has given our committee, and me as chair, additional access to House resources to hold meetings, so there will be additional meetings and they will be longer. I'm currently seeking to secure those resources.

This is going to be an effort, and it's going to take some sacrifice from all of us to get this done. I've tried to accommodate all members of this committee, but going forward, I just want to mention that it is going to take some sacrifice to get this done, because we've had around eight hours of clause-by-clause consideration of this bill so far, and we're less than 30% done.

We've done our due diligence, and I don't want to rush you, but I ask that you try to limit unnecessary interventions. Otherwise, we might get very sick of the premium coffee that we have in our committee room here. Also, I just want to mention that today is going to be audio only, so there will be no clips to be had today either.

Colleagues, let's pass this important piece of legislation to ensure that first nations have clean drinking water for generations to come.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, June 5, 2024, the committee resumes consideration of Bill C-61, an act respecting water, source water, drinking water, waste water and related infrastructure on first nations land.

To help us with the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-61, I would like to welcome our witnesses back today.

We have Nelson Barbosa, director general, community infrastructure branch, Department of Indigenous Services. We also have Rebecca Blake, acting director, legislation, engagement and regulations, Department of Indigenous Services. From the Department of Justice, we have Douglas Fairbairn, senior counsel.

I want to remind all members that the amendments are confidential and that subamendments are to be shared electronically or on paper in both official languages and sent to the clerk for distribution.

With that, let's get back to where we were on clause-by-clause consideration, starting with NDP-37. I will open the floor back up to Ms. Idlout accordingly.

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Good morning. Thank you.

I spoke with my fellow MPs, and I did ask if I can remove some of these amendments. I told them I would be thinking about it. I did find three items that I want to remove. They are NDP-41, NDP-54 and NDP-73.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

I have duly noted those three amendments. We will consider those withdrawn, so we won't go to consideration of those.

However, we are still at NDP-37, so I'd be happy to turn the floor back over to you when you're ready to speak on that as well.

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

Yesterday, the national chief contacted me to ask me to remove their amendments due to the time it is taking to amend Bill C-61. I respect the will of the AFN and I respectfully withdraw those amendments. I will, however, keep the amendments submitted by independent first nations out of respect for their jurisdiction over their lands, territories and resources.

I will be removing these amendments: NDP-37, NDP-42, NDP-43, NDP-46, NDP-48, NDP-49, NDP-57, NDP-58, NDP-61, NDP-63, NDP-66, NDP-75, NDP-79, NDP-2 and NDP-3.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

I'll go through them and list them off again for members in case they missed them. They are NDP-41, NDP-54, NDP-73, NDP-37, NDP-42 and NDP-43.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Go slower.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

All right. I'm going to slow down.

They are NDP-41, NDP-54, NDP-73, NDP-37, NDP-42, NDP-43, NDP-46, NDP-48, NDP-49, NDP-57, NDP-58, NDP-61, NDP-63, NDP-66, NDP-75, NDP-79 and, back at the beginning, NDP-2 and NDP-3.

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout, for sharing that.

With that, I guess the next amendment we have is—

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

Chair, before you jump to that, can I ask for a quick point of clarification?

On that House order, just to clarify and get your interpretation, I think it is still our intent to have Randy Boissonnault attend, not the current minister, Ginette Petitpas Taylor. I just want to confirm that.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thanks for raising that point, Mr. Schmale. It says, “the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Official Languages”.

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

I get that, and I figured this might happen. The minister at the time was Randy Boissonnault.

Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

I don't think that matters.

Ben Carr Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

You asked for the minister. You'll get the minister.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

What's that?

Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

You can call a [Inaudible—Editor] witness, if you like.

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Chair, I support what the Conservatives are doing.

I agree with them that it was not directed at Mr. Boissonnault as the minister. The Standing Orders of the House of Commons stipulate that a minister's name cannot be mentioned and that the member's title must be given instead. Even though the title has changed, it is the person who was targeted.

I think that goes without saying and that the committee doesn't need to waste time debating it.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

I'm going to pass it over to Mr. Carr.

Ben Carr Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Respectfully, the time wasted is a result of the fact that opposition members have tasked the committee with the study. If they're going to call it “wasted”, they can look in the mirror, because it's they who have made the decision to send this back.

It names “the Minister”. The minister is Minister Petitpas Taylor.

Nonetheless, to Mr. Lemire's point, why don't we get interpretation from the clerks? I think the Clerk of the House, Mr. Janse, can give us his interpretation.

However, it's moot at the moment because we're not dealing with that right now, are we? Why don't we just get on with Bill C-61, and then we can get an analysis that will tell us whether or not it's Mr. Boissonnault or Minister Petitpas Taylor, and we go from there.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

We'll have Mr. Schmale and then Mr. Lemire. Then I'll have something to say on this.

8:30 a.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

I don't know if I should wait until you've said your piece.

To Mr. Carr's point, I don't think we need opinions from the Clerk of the House. I think the House is pretty clear that it was Randy Boissonnault, considering that he has been at the core of this whole issue by co-owning a company, which has bid on projects or contracts, that's claiming to be wholly indigenous-owned when clearly that's not the case.

Obviously it was Randy Boissonnault that the committee and the House wanted. We would expect that it would be he who has been ordered to appear, given the fact that when the motion was passed, he was in fact the minister named in the motion.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you, Mr. Schmale.

Next up is Mr. Lemire.

Then I'll have something to say here.

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Chair, I would like to know if it's possible for you to make your decision before 10:15 a.m. It will influence whether or not I agree to devote more time to the committee today to study Bill C‑61.

I don't want to waste my time, but if that's what people want, I'll play the game.

Ben Carr Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

It's not up to a member to decide whether we stay here or not.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

Ms. Idlout.

Mr. Carr, I'm passing the mic to Ms. Idlout.

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

What are you saying?

There was some discussion I didn't get.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Please don't unless you've been recognized. I want to make sure that Ms. Idlout has the floor.